debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 8:20:41 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP =

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:24:03 AM)
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dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:24:49 AM)
Good morning debbie. It is good to see you this bright, sunny, warm (not hot) morning. How are you and the family today?

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 8:26:49 AM)
Good morning Dr J, It's a beautiful day here also. Unfortunately both kids are a bit under the weather.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:27:07 AM)
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debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 8:27:30 AM)
good morning ELM. How are you doing this morning?

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:27:48 AM)
Hi Debbie, guess I'm early

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 8:28:08 AM)
You are right on time!

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:28:09 AM)
Good morning Elm. Let's see, we have and Elm, we have wood (woody that is) hmmmm is this tree morning ;-)

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:28:25 AM)
dr.j, I tried sending you an email yesterday to see if I can set up a consultation with you, but it got bounced back. Can you give me your addy?

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:28:43 AM)
Debbie, sorry to hear that the girls are not feeling well. Do they have sore throats among any other symptom?

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:28:58 AM)

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:29:04 AM)

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 8:29:57 AM)
Kendra has swimmer's ear (too much time in the pool) and we are not quite sure what's wrong with Sarah. We think it's a touch of a flu bug. She gets up in the am and starts complaining she's cold and her tummy hurts, but then starts getting sick. Once sickshe starts feeling better for the rest of the day.

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:30:54 AM)
ELM....I have been clearning out one computer and converting to a new computer. On my old computer, I had a lot of large files (like jpegs and stuff) and I could not save to disk, so I've been emailing these large files to myself and downloading onto my new laptop. I think my email has been maxed out, so sorry if you're message didn't get through. THere's now some room in my email as I'm emptying out the stuff.

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 8:31:15 AM)
be right back

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:31:37 AM)
Yes, I wonder if the summer virus that's been striking down here in DC area has moved south

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:32:29 AM)
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ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:32:31 AM)
yes, drj, that did seem to be the problem with your account. thanks, I've resent the message. Hope your schedule isn't too tight this summer

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:32:43 AM)
ELM, please resend your email

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:33:16 AM)

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:33:27 AM)
It is tight, but there are still open appointments. It's funny, whereas most people are slow in the summer, for me, the summer is very very busy.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:34:12 AM)
I guess, like me, people have more time to ponder their kids issues, and more time to set up appointments

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:34:14 AM)
Goodmorning gorflod. Now, what type of tree are you (that's a joke). We have an ELM, then there's a Woody. (I'm not really a tree, but in disguise as one ;-) )

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:34:35 AM)
LOL, if you could be any tree, which would you be?

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:34:53 AM)
THat's fine. I think the summer is the time for kids to do out-of-school treatments and evals to set up progrmas for the next school year.

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:35:16 AM)
try a backward one

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:35:24 AM)
That's a good question Dr. Elm. Hmmmmmm had never thought about that.

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 8:35:46 AM)
good morning Graeme!

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:35:50 AM)
Ok, gorflod.......It's Graeme Chip, Chip and Cheerio!

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:35:52 AM)
hi debbie

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:35:55 AM)
LOL, dol, what are *your* burning questions?

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:36:00 AM)
It's me, eert

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:36:31 AM)
Well, Graeme, what time is it in the UK?

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 8:36:33 AM)
Looks like I will be popping in and out of the chat with the kids not being well.

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:36:37 AM)
it is afternoon here

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:36:50 AM)
debbie, we understand.

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:36:58 AM)

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:37:21 AM)
That's 5 hours later from Eastern time eh!

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:37:59 AM)
about right we are always in front , but behind with knowledge

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:38:12 AM)
drj, while we're slow, I just want to thank you for your influence on the list. It's great to have your calm, rational presence! Many times drs just roll their eyes when they hear that a parent participates in a list, but you are the reason this list is on track

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:38:18 AM)
Elm, back to the trees. Actually, I love trees. We have many, many trees in our area and our back yard is filled with them.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:38:52 AM)
we just drove thru dc a few weeks ago on our way to VA... it *is* beautiful down there!

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:38:54 AM)
That you

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:39:37 AM)
Elm, I guess you missed our recent thunderstorm weather and heat wave. Where in Virginia did you go (or are you still there)?

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:39:42 AM)
i love trees as well they do not have audio processing problems

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:39:55 AM)
Can I ask you, as a very busy, well-credentialed person, what do *you* get out of setting all of us straight day in and day out?

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:41:02 AM)
could it be a better understanding of our common disability

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:41:04 AM)
nooo, we caught the heat wave! We were headed to Colonial Williamsburg because my son studied it in school, but the kids *hated* it and we spent the week at Kings Dominion and Busch Gardens, LOL

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:41:10 AM)
Good question, Elm. I find the pleasure in educating parents to educate "educators" to educate the world to set things "straight" about how we can help children (and adults) with auditory processing problems.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:41:33 AM)
You have an awful lot of patience!

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:41:44 AM)
what type

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:43:12 AM)
ELM, I hope you don't mind my asking about Williamsburg, only because we've been thinking of a trip there this summer as well, since it's not far away, nice weekend vacation. We were there years ago when our older kids were younger (around ages 7-10 years) and they loved it, but it was a quiet time of the year and not crowded. What did your kids NOT like about Williamsburg ?

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:43:34 AM)
i feel better now

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 8:43:50 AM)
I'm back for a moment at least

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:44:15 AM)
It's such a struggle to find interesting places to go with the kids. My 7yo with APD just doesn't want to *work* on vacation. And listening to people talking is *work* for him. He prefers to do the talking (I mean lecturing).

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:44:19 AM)
sorry i have not been in touch debbie but i have been busy on the domestic front

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:44:26 AM)
ELM, thank you. Also, having worked on the list and especially in the chats, I get a chance to have additional experiences working with parents and families. A large part of my practice and my personal and professional interests involves family counseling issues and working with families and child/parent advocacy.

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 8:44:56 AM)
Graeme, I've been swamped under here too, with both kids sick it's been a rough week around here.

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:45:13 AM)
we have been taking on 2 schools

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:46:08 AM)
ELM, I understand him. It is by far easier to control the conversation then to try to process what is coming in which may be and often IS information that is off topic (or change of topic), new or unusual vocabulary, etc.

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:46:46 AM)
(Hands gorflod aka Graeme a Kleenex)

Lisa (ID=6) (Jul 6, 2001 8:46:54 AM)
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dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:47:01 AM)
GOod morning Lisa.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:47:04 AM)
I could have gotten my 4yo into Colonial Williamsburg, but not my 7yo. Aside from the unbearable heat and humidity, we found it to be very commercial. There were buildings to walk into, but there were long lines, and did I mention the heat? My son liked the barn where they made horseshoes (he's dying to have a workshop for his inventions), and my daughter was intrigued by the clothes, and the baby liked seeing the horse-drawn carriages, but that was about it. Adults with an intellectual bent would probably enjoy it for a day.

Lisa (ID=6) (Jul 6, 2001 8:47:06 AM)

gorflod (ID=5) (Jul 6, 2001 8:47:18 AM)
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dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 8:47:27 AM)
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Lisa (ID=6) (Jul 6, 2001 8:47:35 AM)
I am conused about apd can apd be part of another diagnois?

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 8:47:44 AM)
i am back to my normal self now

dr.j (ID=3) (Jul 6, 2001 8:48:13 AM)
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dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 8:48:36 AM)
Yes APD can be part of a package off disabilities

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:48:43 AM)
oops, drj fell out of cyberspace

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 8:48:57 AM)
the chat gremlins seem to like dr j

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 8:49:03 AM)
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Lisa (ID=6) (Jul 6, 2001 8:49:06 AM)
I was first told my son has add then apd and now pdd-nos. Can it be possible that apd is a result of the pdd-nos. I am not even sure he has pdd-nos. He is 9 and all of a sudden he has pdd

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 8:49:15 AM)
may be has a processing disorder

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 8:49:20 AM)

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 8:49:28 AM)
SOrry, it's those AT&T; gremlins.....

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 8:50:11 AM)
ELM, thanks for the info. I now realize that it was the quiet time in the fall we went....cooler, and not busy. We'll think of a different plan for the summer.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:50:13 AM)
I think I remeber drj saying recently that the autistic spectrum disorder is the primary dx,and the APD is a part of that. did I get that right anybody?

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 8:50:52 AM)
APD is a stand alone disability

Lisa (ID=6) (Jul 6, 2001 8:50:54 AM)
Anyone know of a reading program that would help comprehension that I could do at home the rest of the summer computer based or otherwise?

Lisa (ID=6) (Jul 6, 2001 8:51:22 AM)
So dolfrog if he has apd he doesn't have pdd-nos and vis versa?

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:51:31 AM)
Graeme, sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that it isn't!

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 8:51:36 AM)
ELM, yes, you are correct. WIthin the autistic spectrum are many different sensory processing and cognitive processing issues. SO, if the effect is on the auditory channel or related to cognitive processes underlying auditory-verbal processing, then, auditory processing problems will be seen. But, the primary disorder would be within the autistic spectrum.

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 8:51:44 AM)
no he can it on its own or with other lds

Lisa (ID=6) (Jul 6, 2001 8:52:26 AM)
Dr J if my son is 9 why haven't I been told about pdd-nos before.any ideas?

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 8:53:00 AM)
dolfrog, who straightened his name out so now I can't read it ;-)........APD is a primary dx for very few children and adults with auditory processing problems....from my experience and from the definitions of APD as set down by the ASHA COnsensus and the AAA (Jerger/Musiek) consensus groups.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:53:26 AM)
A few years ago, when my son was first tentatively dx'd with Aspergers, the school rolled their eyes at me and told me how vogue AS is. Now, I'm told, APD is the new vogue dx. SO upsetting to hear that right after you hear your child has disorder

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 8:54:10 AM)
as some may know i have APD as do my sons

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 8:54:23 AM)
Wow, is that right, drj! Other than ASD, what are some other primary dx's?

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 8:54:23 AM)
I can't answer that, Lisa. Perhaps the professionals with whom you were working did not have the expertise to dx pdd-nos or they did not know what they were looking at. I find that all too often, professionals look down very narrow tunnels (if you know what I mean) and they forget to really look at the child.

Lisa (ID=6) (Jul 6, 2001 8:54:59 AM)
Dr J how is pdd-nos diff from as at first they mentioned as now it is pdd. How can I be sure they are right?

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 8:54:59 AM)
this goes back to your trans discipline plan

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 8:55:38 AM)
Dr J if APD is usually not the primary diagnosis, but that is the only dx, how is a parent to know if that is the primary disorder?

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 8:56:48 AM)
TO set everyone straight, APD as a primary disorder means a disorder in processing auditory information ONLY. It is a receptive problem and is primary to the auditory message (NOT the linguistic message). Thus, a child with APD as a primary dx would have to show problems processing BOTH linguistic (language) and NON-linguistic auditory information BUT be normally able to process NON-auditory information such as visual, tactile, kinesthetic, gustatory, etc. Most children have problems processing auditory information - NOT primary auditory based APD.

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 8:57:30 AM)
you are good at describing me

Lisa (ID=6) (Jul 6, 2001 8:57:45 AM)
I have to go back to work but I will come back again I just wanted to sign in and see what this was all about I never been in a char thanks again

Lisa (ID=6) (Jul 6, 2001 8:58:01 AM)
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dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 8:58:25 AM)
debbie, as always, it depends on the approach the professional takes whether APD will be seen as the only or primary diagnosis. Please parents, always remember. WHen I discuss APD, I am caught in the bind trying to explain APD generically and then from MY personal/professional point of view.

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 8:58:47 AM)
dr j are you venturing over to the uk at all

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:00:13 AM)
my new target is to have a dx for proper Dx for Iain

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:00:19 AM)
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dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:00:34 AM)
Not in my plans as of yet. I was contacted by someone from the UK about having a group of professionals come to the U.S. to work with me, and I offered a reciprocal they come here for a while and I could go there or I could just go there to save on the costs of sending 4 people to the U.S. I never heard back from them, as of yet.

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:00:41 AM)
GOod morning jb

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:01:14 AM)
good morning!

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:01:18 AM)
Good morning jb

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:01:30 AM)
good moring all

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:01:39 AM)
iains school have suggested that your opinion would be accepted by our school examining boards

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:02:06 AM)
good afternoon jb

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:02:30 AM)
back at ya,dolfrog

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:02:34 AM)
drj, how do the two differ? (generic APD and your personal/prof pov)

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:02:38 AM)
Let's all just have a drink of J&B....;-)

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:02:53 AM)
no ice

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:03:06 AM)
dr.j, is the scan juat a screening test for apd?

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:03:38 AM)
that was just

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:04:44 AM)
my daughter did terrible on the scan, a language test, but the school gave it no weight because is is just a screening test.

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:04:56 AM)
THe generic definition as it now stands is that APD is a disorder in using (processing) auditory information (both verbal and non-verbal) specific to a deficit in the auditory channel. SO, for instance, if a child has problems remembering (auditory memory) this would ONLY be considered an AUDITORY based APD IF visual memory were normal, tactile memory were normal, etc. Usually, the big differentiation is visual normal auditory poor (but in some cases, to differentiate APD (pure) from non-APD processing problems, other sensory areas need to be normal as well.

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:05:20 AM)
jb,,,,did the school recommend further testing if she did poorly on the "screening test"

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:05:25 AM)
In my experience, few children (that would be less than 50% of all the children I see) have PURE auditory processing problems. Most have combination problems.

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:05:50 AM)
our family are in the less than 50

me (ID=10) (Jul 6, 2001 9:06:05 AM)
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debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:06:18 AM)
hello me

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:06:27 AM)
hi me is this u

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:06:58 AM)
not until she is older-May 2002 for the audiological testing at a local hospital. she did poor on the CTOPP and she is about to enter kindergarten.

me (ID=10) (Jul 6, 2001 9:07:34 AM)
I have never been to this online chat before. I have a 7 year old son with LD, SI, possible aspergers, and CAPD. Just wanted to join in and see if I could learn something new or possibly get some new insite.

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:07:44 AM)
i am concerned she will be lost. she has poor auditory memory, word finding problems.

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:07:58 AM)
so if the school is not recommending more testing for another year, what do they plan on doing for her while she is in kindergarten or are they just taking a wait and see postiion?

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:08:08 AM)
In my approach, I have reclassified or redefined APD as a Verbal Information Processing Disorder or VIPD that can stem from one of three general areas of deficit: Primary auditory, Primary language, Primary cognitive. Obviously, and probably what occurs most of the time is a combination or integration breakdown between these three areas. I also include emotional factors, primary sensory factors (but I see these as either primary auditory or primary cognitive since sensory processing involves cognitive factors) and I also see experiential factors as important. However, the emotional and experiential factors really are specific and usually can be identified more easily than the differentiation between the auditory-language-cognitive factors.

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:08:42 AM)
Me, we are happy you could join us

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:08:45 AM)
Welcome, ME. You're in the right place to discuss.

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:09:24 AM)
in kindergarten she will have language therapy 2-3x week. The child study team, along with me and her teacher will meet in Oct to see how she is doing.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:09:29 AM)
hi me, you just described my son, as well (altho he doesn't have too many SI issues)

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:10:47 AM)
At 7 it is difficult for them to cope with APD M&M; uses his visual back up systems when he can

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:12:04 AM)
dr.j, my daughter has poor auditory memory, but what confuses me is that me is that somethings she recalls consistently and than other things she cannot recall despite being repeatedly told. (her age). why is that?

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:12:11 AM)
drj, I notice you said *verbal*, not auditory. Does that suggest a focus on verbal info as opposed to auditory info in general?

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:12:30 AM)
But M&M; has his elder brother who also has APD to guide him

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:13:07 AM)
yes, dolfrog, I totally agree...and my son uses his highly-developed silly systems when he can, in addition to his visual systems!

tabby (ID=11) (Jul 6, 2001 9:13:10 AM)
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dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:13:17 AM)
memory recall is due to the short term memory being used for coping strategies

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:13:46 AM)
what do you mean, dolfrog?

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:14:00 AM)
and it may be stored in the long term memory

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:14:25 AM)
compare the short term memory to the RAM of a computer

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:15:05 AM)
so dolfrog, you feel that instead of storing new information they're busy just trying to find a coping strategy?

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:15:06 AM)
there is limited space and if you use all the space with coping strategies there is little or no space for other info

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:15:07 AM)
SOrry if anyone was trying to get in to me during the chat. I'm on a new computer and I needed to do some minor adjustments in order to follow the chat better. I'm baack

me (ID=10) (Jul 6, 2001 9:15:39 AM)
My son also has difficulty recalling things that he has known in the past. For instance with reading, when given a list of rhyming words, he will say the first word, and knows that the list rhymes, but will try to sound out the next word, as if it doesn't rhyme. Does that make sense?

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:15:40 AM)
info is stored in the long term memmory

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:15:43 AM)
jb, my daughter use to have trouble with short term memory, but her long term is much better. As time goes on, her short term memory seems to be doign a bit better.

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:16:41 AM)
she remembered her birthday the first time she was told, but things that we do repeatedly, like her age, she cannot recall. it mystifies me.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:17:07 AM)
it's so frustrating, isn't it, me, when you *know* they know something, but somehow they just can't *find* it! it's so hard to not know how to help

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:17:18 AM)
all coping strategies are based on life experriences and therefore we need to have them available when neccessary, and this means links to the strategy have to be in the shortterm memory

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:17:46 AM)
I know what you mean ELM it happens to me every day

tabby (ID=11) (Jul 6, 2001 9:17:57 AM)
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dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:18:03 AM)
dolfrog, you are correct IF the problem with a person's memory is limited storage. However, the usual problem is poor storing strategies. Thus, the person with normal IQ or normal cognitive abilities probably has the same basic memory capacity as all other people with normal cognitive abilities. The problem is how the information is put into memory, how it is sorted and organized within memory, the links between the "tags" placed in memory and the whole piece of information (we do NOT place all the information bits into memory), and how we search memory .....your analogy of RAM is a great one, but also, consider longer term memory (not working memory) as the C drive on your computer.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:18:05 AM)
anyone have any tips, coping mechanisms for creating or finding those links?

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:18:15 AM)
WHat links?

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:18:52 AM)

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:19:01 AM)
what chains?

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:19:05 AM)

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:19:14 AM)

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:19:32 AM)
as dolfrog was saying, the links to the strategy

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:19:37 AM)
dolfrog made a comment about links to strategies must be kept in short term memory..i think that is what they are referring to

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:19:47 AM)
LOL, who can remember?

me (ID=10) (Jul 6, 2001 9:19:54 AM)
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jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:19:57 AM)
well, i have to go... mu son has baseball practice.

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:20:15 AM)
take care jb..hope you come back to the chats

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:20:30 AM)
i will. have a great day all!

jb (ID=9) (Jul 6, 2001 9:20:34 AM)
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dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:21:14 AM)
you develop strategies, every day and adapt old ones. and the classification is a problem and if your hard disc (long term memory is disorganised then you have a few processing delays

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:21:24 AM)
drj, do you think typical, off-the-shelf strategies to improve memory would help improve storing strategies?

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:21:42 AM)
only on a basic level

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:22:15 AM)
you have to personalise your strategies to met your own challanges

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:22:20 AM)
and, dol, if you tend to dislike change, you may stick with old strategies that you know don't work but you're comfortable with. do you find that you do that?

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:22:29 AM)
Well, we all have different strategies, and our links for each strategy would be placed in LONG term memory NOT short term and not in working memory. WHY I say this is becasue tomorrow you can think about and use that same strategy, so it can't be in working memory (lasts only a few seconds) or short term memory (lasts maybe a minute or so). Long term memory lasts more than 5 minutes and definitely more than a day.

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:23:08 AM)
some times used to in the past but not so much now, only found out about APD 2 years ago

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:24:16 AM)
but what you are used to has to be addapted or changed totaly

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:24:16 AM)
ELM, you are exactly right. ALmost all of the research with which I am familiar discussing strategies for communication and effective communication indicate that most people continue to use the same old strategies even if they are NOT successful all or most of the time because they are sucessful SOME of the time and they are OLD, ingrained habits. WIth children the goal is to make the strategies SO automatic that they become the normal habitual strategies they will use ALL of the time.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:24:57 AM)
and the $64K do you *do* that?

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:24:59 AM)
Yes, that is the goal of remediation in APD (at least from MY point of view).

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:26:14 AM)
I have had to do it for my self, and so it is not too successful

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:26:26 AM)
an FM isn't going to do that, and FFWD may or may not be a partial solution, so how do we give these kids strategies that work? and help them discontinue ones that don't?

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:26:44 AM)
Dol, is it a conscious thing for you?

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:26:59 AM)
The old APDs have some ideas sometimes

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:27:24 AM)
It is now, but before it was automatic

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:27:37 AM)

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:28:07 AM)
Identify the underlying problem area. Identify whether you're going to look at auditory based problems, language based problems or cognitive based problems. Then, use the other two strong areas (especially cogntive when the probem is auditory or language) and experiment with different cognitive strategies (in this example) that can override the primary auditory or language deficit. Then, practice, practice, practice, intensive practice. Use these new strategies in NATURAL contexts. Everyone needs to enhance and CUE the use of these strategies, then withdraw the cues, continue the use of the strategies, add new or novel situations, see if the stratgegies are used successfully or at all in these novel situations, and then, make the strategies a natural part of the process. Remediation!

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:28:16 AM)
Because i some how survived ,not very well before i knew about APD

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:29:05 AM)
Wow, what a recipe!

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:29:31 AM)
Wow, what a recipe!

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:29:36 AM)

tabby (ID=12) (Jul 6, 2001 9:29:52 AM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP =

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:30:03 AM)
Hi tabby

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:30:11 AM)
ELM if you think about it,,,that is what FFW does. It is an intensive program that works on the idea of intensive practice and then the program adjusts as the child learns the desired behavior or skill

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:30:26 AM)
can you define cognitive based? i'm assuming you don't mean iq-related

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:30:36 AM)
hi tabby

tabby (ID=12) (Jul 6, 2001 9:30:46 AM)

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:31:27 AM)
But all coping skills have to related to the person using them. And what they need to use in their daily life

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:31:31 AM)
I think the dx of APD (regardless of the approach taken) often relieves much anxiety and reduces emotional overloading. THis alone leads to some improvement. THen, if the proper underlying factor is found, the areas of strength and weakness can be identified, and the strategies just seem to be a natural outgrowth of knowing what is NOT happening and doing a task analysis (by the adult, professional, parent, teacher, etc) to figure out HOW do I get from point A to point Z and if there's a breakdown, what OTHer route could I take. Identify many routes, introduce ALL of these routes one at a time to the child, and have the child try each route, and the ones (not the plural here) the child finds easiest to use successfully should become the new strategies. Must be plural so there are backup stratetgies.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:31:51 AM)
debbie, I guess that's what FFWD would *like* to do, but I get the impression that it doesn't always succeed. my son just went thru it and is due for follow up testing, but I certainly haven't seen *remediation*

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:32:39 AM)
Yes, dolfrog, the coping skills MUST relate to the child's individual needs, style, abilities, etc. AND the child MUST use them in naturalistic settings and naturalistic situations over and over and over again to make them natural and automatic.

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:32:57 AM)
ELM, FFW is not for all kids, it depends on the area in which your child needed remediation. With my daughter, we saw gains, but I have a feeling she is now, after a long length of time, falling back into old habits

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:33:23 AM)
FFWD and EVERY OTHER program, book, etc. are only TOOLS. FOr example, FFWD is excellent for repetative and intensive practice. But, practicing WHAT?

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:33:32 AM)
If you get some basic biulding blocks such as FFW then you have to go on from there, and this is where the personal angle comes in. You have to find the need and cope with that one need at a time

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:33:43 AM)
do you think the testing that is normally done properly identifies the precise areas of strength and weakness?

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:34:50 AM)
None of these programs are really training anything. If the child happens to figure out on his/her own what strategy works best and uses that to beat (win) the game and gain a lot of coins (quicker responses lead to more trials with more successes lead to more coins/tokens). BUt, what if a child can't figure out the strategy to do a task.

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:34:52 AM)
coping strategies are based on life experiances and everyones experiences and needs are different, but they can adapt and develop basic coping skills

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:35:09 AM)
ELM, I dont think it's the testing done, I think it's the knowledgable interpretation of the results that would identify the weaknesses and strengths

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:35:48 AM)
drj we are on parallel paths

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:36:45 AM)
what I mean, is two doctors can look at the exact same test results, but unless the doctor is trained in how to interpret the tests results properly, they may not recognize the underlying factors the test results point to

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:37:32 AM)
ELM, yes, I think the testing DOES precisely identify the specific areas of strength and weakness. I think that most people (most professionals) don't know how to use the tests and how to observe what the child is doing on each task for the different tasks on the tests) in order to identify the underlying areas of processing problems and the strengths and weaknesses. FUrthermore, in MY APPROACH, I think the whole area of electrophysiological measures (like ABR, BAER, BSAP, etc., MLR, P-200, P-300, MMN) provide NO helpful information regarding specific areas of weakness (definitely nothing about areas of strength).

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:37:53 AM)
back to tunnel vision debbie

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:39:36 AM)
debbie, yes. What is interesting though (parents) is that two good doctors taking two very different approaches but both using ALL the data, ALL the info, ALL observations, will come up with different dx or different descriptions, but BOTH will come up with approaches to treatment that will be appropriate, correct and successful.

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:41:07 AM)
got to go and collect M&M; from school

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:41:16 AM)
bye for now

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:41:24 AM)
bye dolfrog!

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:41:40 AM)
well, that's encouraging, drj

dolfrog (ID=7) (Jul 6, 2001 9:41:42 AM)
(This user has left DigiChat) (IP =

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:44:15 AM)
Dr J, what type of training does an aud have when they decide to start testing for APD if they are already out of school?

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:44:24 AM)
did that sound right? *LOL*

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:45:16 AM)
I guess what Im asking is , when an audiologist orders the SCAN or the SSW or other tests, what type of training do the receive in the proper interpretation of the results?

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:46:45 AM)
FOr example, I recently taught a graduate level class in APD at a University in Chicago. It was one of those intensive courses 8:30am to 4:30 pm for a couple of days. Well, the final exam was two cases. In one case, the students had to take the history information provided, descriptions of behaviors, test results, descriptions of test behaviors, and they had to make the dx of the type or area of APD presented by the child (Case #1). Well, of the 42 students in the class, they were not told which approach to take. Most took the professors approach (mine) because that is what most students do. But, some took the Buffalo model, and others took what I call the neurophysiological approach. Well, what is most interesting, the students used the same approach for case 1 and case 2. IN case 2 they had to describe at least 3 accommodations and set up at least ONE long term goal and 3 short term objectives to reach this goal. Well, regardless of the approach, using the same observational methods I taught them,

tabby (ID=12) (Jul 6, 2001 9:47:37 AM)
this is all new for me,i was just reading to learn. we were told our 9 year old had CAPD in may before school was out. what as a parent can i do.

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:48:19 AM)
Now, the problem was in the short term objectives which relates to development of strategies. MOST students in graduate level communciation disorders (SLP and Audiology) programs have NO idea of how to develop strategies for a child with any processing problem and in the short time of my class we did not really cover this since we did not have the time to do so.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:49:05 AM)
I'm so impressed by someone who is merely able to DX it!

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:49:17 AM)
tabby, i think you are taking the first step now...the most important thing (in my opinion) that you can do is to educate yourself.

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:50:17 AM)
You need to not only learn what APD is, what you can do to accomodate and remediate (yes they are different things), but also what your child's rights are in the school

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:50:23 AM)
Tabby, go back to the professionals who told you that and ask them to explain specifically what they mean, how they identified your child had CAPD (old name the newer name or use is just APD) and explain in YOUR terms. At various points in this discussion with them, ask them to stop, say "I want to repeat back what I think I understand" to make sure you do understand, and then, have them answer any and ALL of your questions. THey made the dx now they should explain it to you at a level you understand.

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:53:48 AM)
I guess what I was trying to get at was that using three very different (although my approach and the Buffalo model have many similarities) approaches to APD will come up with the same dx and identification of underlying problem area (there was only one area of problem for the two cases in my final exam). It was also interesting to see that many students identified more than one underlying area, but were able to explain how the primary area (in the case of MY final exam Case 1 had a decoding problem while Case 2 had an auditory attention/distractibility problem). ANd the students overwhelmingly when they identified more than one problem area identified the specific (correct) underlying primary problem area and how that specific problem area affected the child so the otehr areas were made weak.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:54:52 AM)
(Sorry to change the subject, but I'm you find that it helps to explain the disorder to a child who has self-esteem issues? My son is in denial that there is anything unusual about him.)

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 9:55:08 AM)
good question ELM

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:55:31 AM)
ELM, does your son identify any areas in which he is having problems?

tabby (ID=12) (Jul 6, 2001 9:55:36 AM)
the school is trying to get an FM system or auditory trainer placed in her classroom next year

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:56:14 AM)
tabby, did they explain to you WHY they were recommending the FM system?

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:56:31 AM)
LOL, Nope! Gleefully refers to himself as Boy Genius, LOL

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 9:57:35 AM)
In all seriousness, he will find an external reason why he did not succeed

tabby (ID=12) (Jul 6, 2001 9:57:36 AM)
her background noise is louder than the teacher voice, and she loses focus

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:58:04 AM)
ALso, tabby, please note that an FM system whether a personal FM or a classroom device is NO treatment or will NOT improve the auditory processing problems. It is an accommodation merely to help get the speaker's voice, usually the teacher's voice louder to the child and (with the personal FM system ONLY) will help reduce the background noise that MAY be a distraction (or it may not distract if the child does not have auditory distractibility problems).

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 9:59:36 AM)
ELM, well, then, if I felt I was a Boy Genius, why would I have any problems with self esteem? I think I would have such a positive esteem of myself being a genius. I could see the problem here as putting other people down because they are "below" me, but not seeing a problem with myself. SO, what is your real, underlying concern?

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 10:03:37 AM)
LOL...well, overly inflated self-esteem is just the other side of the same coin, don't you think?

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 10:04:21 AM)
tabby, studies have shown that the average classrooom background noise is much louder than the teacher's voice for ALL children. SO, background noise always exists. However, not all children show auditory sensitivity to background noise (either as sensitivity or as poor attention - two different problems with two different solutions). If your daughter has a problem focusing her attention, a classroom FM system may not help as it is nothing more than a PA system like in a large auditorium. If I loose attention to the teacher, why should I gain attention only by having her voice louder? Most kids with focusing attention problems either have underlying ATTENTION problems (that does NOT mean they have ADD or ADHD) just attention problems (attention is a cognitive not an auditory process) and they need to learn cognitive strategies to attend. Only a few kids I've seen have auditory based focusing problems. Usually, they have auditory sensitivities (in my approach) and for them the appropriate accommodation

tabby (ID=12) (Jul 6, 2001 10:05:09 AM)
shayna was evaluated at the Hearing and Speach Dept. at Baptist Medical Center, they did an Audiological Evaluation

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 10:05:52 AM)
Well, I don't mean to cut this short, but, I notice the time. I can stay on for about another 10 minutes, but I must leave by 10:15. This is just a 10 minute notice (sort of what we need to give our kids with processing problems, esp. those with ppd-nos and in the autistic spectrum (since these were brought up earlier).

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 10:06:55 AM)
tabby, you said an interesting thing earlier, do you mind if I ask the following. You said, "her background noise is louder than the teacher's voice." WHat did you mean by this comment?

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 10:07:35 AM)
(again, drj, I don't want to interrupt your train of thought, but I did want to let you know that I emailed you earlier and am really looking forward to getting your input!)

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 10:08:30 AM)
drj, your previous post was cut off. "and for them the appropriate accommodation..." is? is?

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 10:08:39 AM)

tabby (ID=12) (Jul 6, 2001 10:09:33 AM)
That is what told me was happening according to the tests they did. A drop of a pencil, or moveing papers will take her attenion off the teacher because it would be louder

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 10:09:47 AM)
elm, as per your "and for them....." I'm trying to find it. Could you give me more of the prior info I wrote.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 10:10:29 AM)
about 3 or 4 posts ago...starts with "tabby, studies have shown"

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 10:12:56 AM)
tabby, if that is what they said and you believe what they told you is a correct assessment of behaviors you have seen in your child, then, she would need an accommodation of a personal FM system since a classroom system or what is called a soundfield system will still allow her to hear the papers turning, the pencil dropping etc. But, remember the FM system is only an acccommodation and will NOT teach her how to be less sensitive to distracting noises. SHe still needs remediation. I want to remind you and everyone, I am writing this without any knowledge of the specifics of her case and not really knowing if the test results support an auditory sensitivity/distractibility problem. I am going PURELY by what you said. tabby.

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 10:13:47 AM)
how do you teach someone to be less sensitive to distracting noises?

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 10:17:08 AM)
Dr J , I know you said you had to be going, I want to thank you for the time you've spent in the chat this morning. Perhaps we can continue on this line during our next morning chat, once we get it scheduled.

tabby (ID=12) (Jul 6, 2001 10:17:40 AM)
I don't know what to beleave, all i know is she was having a comperhenion problem and trouble following directions in order. She would miss the middle direction but get the first and last

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 10:17:41 AM)
yes, drj, thank you so much!

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 10:18:03 AM)
ELM, I was saying studies have shown that the average classroom has a very high level of background noise, but most children learn to function in and deal with the background noise. Children bothered by the background noise can have a variety of auditory processing problems (my approach) including poor decoding (so the background noise reduces the "code"), auditory sensitivity/distractibility (they are distracted by the background noise and spend more energy than needed filtering it out so they do not have suffcient energy processing the relevant information), attention problems (then have one of a variety of factors related to poor attention that may or may NOT be related to ADD/ADHD), or they have non-APD factors such as emotional problems and the noise is (for them) and emotionally noxious situation so they shut down. THe first factor is an appropriate diagnosis of what of these I've stated is the underlying factor accounting for the presenting problem of being bothered by background noise. THEN, once t

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 10:19:06 AM)
Hmm, that's great, what a great perspective!

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 10:19:51 AM)
tabby, what you describe as a presenting problem has NOTHING to do with noise interference or background noise problems or focusing problems. If a child looses focus, they may get the beginning and loose everything else. But, what would bring the child back to task to get the end? I'm only presenting some food for thought. ANd, I have to run, and I feel bad leaving you like this. Please if you want to discuss this further, email

tabby (ID=12) (Jul 6, 2001 10:20:41 AM)
thank you

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 10:20:54 AM)
I beleive our next chat will also be on a Friday morning because I am involved with a summer program monday-thursday mornings until the middle of August. SO, see you in two weeks on Friday am, everyone. Debbie and I will send reminders on the APD list and on this chat reminder list.

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 10:21:04 AM)

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 10:21:08 AM)
thanks again, this was great!

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 10:21:14 AM)
the me......was a mistake.

dr.j (ID=8) (Jul 6, 2001 10:21:21 AM)
bye for now.

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 10:21:47 AM)
bye Dr J

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 10:21:57 AM)
bye drj

tabby (ID=12) (Jul 6, 2001 10:22:03 AM)
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ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 10:22:12 AM)
(and thank you, too, debbie, hope your kids are better soon!)

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 10:22:15 AM)
ELM thanks for joining us this mroning!

debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 10:22:21 AM)
I hopeso too!! bye for now

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 10:22:25 AM)

ELM (ID=4) (Jul 6, 2001 10:22:28 AM)
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debbie (ID=2) (Jul 6, 2001 10:22:33 AM)
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