kathy (ID=49) (May 1, 2001 8:32:00 AM)
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kathy (ID=49) (May 1, 2001 8:32:00 AM)
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kathy (ID=49) (May 1, 2001 8:32:00 AM)
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kathy (ID=49) (May 1, 2001 8:32:58 AM)
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Kathy (ID=50) (May 1, 2001 9:02:33 AM)
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dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:03:19 AM)
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dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:03:34 AM)
good morning Kathy. Sorry to be so late. How are you this am

Kathy (ID=50) (May 1, 2001 9:06:38 AM)
Good morning Dr. J Iwas jsut talking to Debbie on IM about you

Kathy (ID=50) (May 1, 2001 9:07:16 AM)
She is at work and was wondering if I was in the chat and I said I had oit on but was waiting for everyone...

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:08:36 AM)
Yes, we had a bit of a late start this am and then hit traffic. ANyway, we're here and if anyone else arrives they can join in.

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:08:45 AM)
How are you all this am?

Kathy (ID=50) (May 1, 2001 9:09:44 AM)
was back talking to debbie sorry.

Kathy (ID=50) (May 1, 2001 9:10:09 AM)
I cant seem to make my computer show my IM's and the chat at the same time....

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:11:25 AM)
Kathy, I have to get a phone call. BRB

Kathy (ID=50) (May 1, 2001 9:12:25 AM)
Was telling her that I am going to a seminar on Sat by the FFamilyNetwork on Disabilities...how to write an IEP and part on How SI and APD lead to learning disabilities...Ok I'll be back in a flash going to talk to Debbie

Kathy (ID=50) (May 1, 2001 9:17:58 AM)
is this thing working

Kathy (ID=50) (May 1, 2001 9:18:00 AM)
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kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 9:19:00 AM)
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dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:19:14 AM)
Hello again Kathy. Is your computer working OK?

kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 9:19:20 AM)
Sorry I got the boot from aol

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:20:19 AM)
Well, we can try to have a discussion. I read you are going to a seminar Sat on how to write an IEP? I personally would be very interested to see what they have to say about "How SI and APD lead to LD."

kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 9:20:21 AM)
thought once we went to cable acc we'd have less trouble

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:20:50 AM)
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dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:20:50 AM)
Yes, it's less trouble to get kicked off the net ;-) kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 9:20:58 AM)
yes It will be "enlightening"

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:20:58 AM)
Good morning Becki

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:21:05 AM)
hello!!! good morning

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:21:18 AM)
remember i talked to you once under sexilegz:)

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:21:41 AM)
Yes, I do remember that "chat name"

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:21:54 AM)
well, so i don't have a good memory myself:)

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:22:25 AM)
Sorry did you say something ;-)

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:22:50 AM)
after talking to you last time i have done some research and my second iep meeting is scheduled for 10 today

kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 9:23:00 AM)
good luck

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:23:09 AM)
I hope it goes well for you becki

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:23:14 AM)
the first meeting the school tried to do absolutely nothing for my daughter:)

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:23:36 AM)
this time i have the person who did the testing going with me to try and help explain to the school what the prob is

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:24:02 AM)
Do you have what you feel is sufficient "evidence" to demonstrate that your daughter has problems learning that require either special educational services (IEP) or class/school accomodations?

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:24:30 AM)
Good Becki. I hope that the evaluator will be a good advocate for you and your daughter.

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:24:34 AM)
dr j let me ask you - do you think that kids with apd benefit from tutoring? they told me that until she learns how to learn it will do no good?

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:26:38 AM)
NO. I do not think that tutoring is the right approach (in general) for most kids with APD. What is needed is two fold: (1) accommodations to make learning easier, appropriate, meeting the child's auditory-verbal language processing needs. (2) remediation of the underlying problems or developing strategies so that the child can be more and hopefully totally independent in processing auditory information......

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:27:27 AM)
so during the summer what can i do as a parent to help the situation? the problem with my daughter is she is also dyslexic so reading is also a big problem

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:27:48 AM)
i don't want to sit all summer and do nothing for her...

kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 9:28:00 AM)
please give examples of 1 and 2 that might be appropriate

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:28:15 AM)
For me, as part of and a major part of the accommodations are "pre-teaching" and helping the child stay ahead in order to keep up with and be a part of the class. Tutoring is (for me) "catch up." In essence, tutoring actually teaches (I believe) the child to shut down and stop learning/participating in class becasue the tutor will do the actual teaching, and the teacher stops teaching the child because the tutor can do that instead.

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:28:59 AM)
so having her go to a tutor 2 times a week during the summer when theres no school won't really be a plus for her?

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:29:17 AM)
becki, I agree. During the summer it is a great time to focus attention on remediation - working on the underlying problems so that when school starts your daughter (or child for other parents) will have grown and developed better auditory processing skills......

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:29:19 AM)
she is already sooooo far behind i hate to see her go to the next grade

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:29:58 AM)
the tutor asked if there is a special way to teach her is there somewhere she can get information on it to kind of read up on?

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:30:17 AM)
For example, my colleagues and I are running three different intensive training programs this summer (Lindamood-Bell, FFWD, and a writing program) covering a total of 8 weeks in order to focus attention and time to help children with APD and reading and writing and learning problems.

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:30:44 AM)
can you take a trip down to fl and help us out down here??:)

kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 9:31:03 AM)
becki I am in Pinellas county where are you?

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:31:11 AM)
fort walton beach

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:31:27 AM)
kathy - where is that?

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:31:29 AM)
becki, what YOU and the tutor need is to understand your daughter's underlying reasons or areas for having problems processing auditory-verbal information and then to focus specific remediation on developing those areas or developing strategies to compensate for the problems in those areas.

kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 9:32:11 AM)
Dr j, will children particpate in all three programs this summer

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:32:20 AM)
becki, I AM taking a trip down to FLA. I am presenting 1/2 day (afternoon) of the conference with Dr. Moncrief through the NCAPD (the one in the banner above in the chat).

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:32:50 AM)
could you come to the panhandle:) orlando is hours and hours away:)

kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 9:33:08 AM)
I will meet you on Orlando

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:33:09 AM)
However, if needed as a consultant, I am happy to make those arrangements either via in person (arranged as needed) or via telephone conference or internet (email/chat) whatever.

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:33:21 AM)
when you say reason - what are some reasons because i am still unclear what that exactly means?

Pauline (ID=54) (May 1, 2001 9:33:21 AM)
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cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 9:33:54 AM)
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Pauline (ID=54) (May 1, 2001 9:34:50 AM)
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dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:35:36 AM)
kathy, NO! I think it will be overwhelming for a specific child to do the L-B, FFWD, AND the writing program. Also, I think the L-B and FFWD are two very different programs for two very different purposes for two different types of candidates. There are a few kids signed up for BOTH FFWD and the writing program. Our focus on L-B is for four hour sessions (9am - 1pm) in which we will be doing auditory/language processing at the phonemic awareness level, LiPS type stuff and Seeing Stars (new L-B program) and then 1-1/2 hours of Visualizing and Verbalizing. That's really alot.

kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 9:36:20 AM)
more would be overload.....one program is plenty

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:37:05 AM)
becki, I'm responding to your question about "reasons." Well, that depends on the professional's approach to APD. In my approach, I see 6 areas that underlie the reasons a person may be having an auditory processing problem ALSO I see four primary factors that can account for problems processing auditory-verbal information processing.

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:37:32 AM)
i can't get my school to understand that there is any connection between my daughters problems with letters and sounds and the relationship that apd has anything to do with it

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:38:20 AM)
well i guess my testor fell short in explaining any of those to me because i haven't heard one when pertaining to her..only that she has the problem

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:38:27 AM)
For example: A child could have a primary AUDITORY based deficit; or a primary LANGUAGE based deficit; or a primary COGNITIVE based deficit or some combination of these factors. Then, remediation SHOULD focus on the areas of primary based deficit. For example, a lot of auditory training is totally inappropriate for a child with a language or cognitive based problem.

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:39:04 AM)
ah.....i understand what you mean now......

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:40:05 AM)
if it is primarily auditory then you focus on alot verbally to teach them to understand???

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:41:01 AM)
where can i get information on the conference in orlando?????

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:41:19 AM)
becki, please don't take this next statement of mine in a negative way. But, I often make this statement in my presentations and courses I teach. "WHen a child is referred for APD testing, the person making the referral already has determined that there is or are problems processing auditory information. Thus, when the child steps in the door of the office of the professional who will be doing the APD testing, the dx that the child has APD problems has already been made. Therefore, the purpose of APD testing is not to determine IF a problem exists (we know it does or there would be no need for testing). Instead the purpose is to determine WHAT ARE THE UNDERLYING FACTORS (REASONS) that cause the child to be having problems processing auditory-verbal information! ! !

cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 9:41:54 AM)
Dear Dr. J., I have a son that was diagnosed with CAPD in the first grade. He is now in the 8th grade. We did Fast Forword I after 4th grade and then we, the parents, installed sound field FM systems in his classrooms from 5th grade to the present. Also, he took Fast Forword II after 6th grade. The new superintendent of our school district will not allow him to have the surround sound systems in his rooms in 9th grade. Getting a 504 or an IEP was never suggested anytime prior to this year. At the beginning of 5th grade he had a 4.6 grade level reading level and 3 years later has a 12.2 grade level reading on the Gates test. The school district says that he is too successful to qualify for any accomodation. He does fine now and has caught up and is not being tutored. However, if he does not hear, he cannot maintain this level of accomplishment. My question is, how do we get CAPD itself to be recognized as a disability so that we can get sound systems in his rooms?

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:42:55 AM)
NO, becki. If the problem is primarily auditory, you focus alot on teaching the child how to use and deal with the four components of the auditory signal......auditory has NOTHING to do with meaning or understanding. mearning and understanding (i.e., comprehension) is either a problem with language or cognition. AUditory means USING AUDITORY (or acoustic) SIGNALS appropriately.

kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 9:43:12 AM)
Thank you dr j that is a great way to explain it...

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:44:13 AM)
so even though i'm not a doctor it sounds to me like my daughter has more than one of them........at least i'm understanding it better and better every day...thanks!

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:44:35 AM)
becki, you can click on the link about the conference in the banner above OR go to the ncapd website (www.ncapd.org) and click on the link to the conference. OR if all else fails, email debbie@ncapd.org (THat's debbie wood at the ncapd).

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:45:35 AM)
i think that i might try and go down and catch it

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:46:32 AM)
becki, I would say that most kids with problems processing auditory-verbal information present with problems using the auditory signal, language factors and cognitive factors (such as decision making and conceptual understanding). The job of the evaluator (in my approach, in my opinion) is to filter out via a factor analysis and determine which of the three factors (auditory, language, cognitive) account for the primary problem leading to deficits in auditory processing or (As I'd rather say) in processing of auditory-verbal information.

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:49:37 AM)
I can say that the afternoon, especially, for which I will be presenting will focus on understanding what we can do to accommodate for children with problems processing auditory-verbal information to help them at home, socially, interpersonal communication and in school as well as to REMEDIATE the problems. I will address some of the popular programs such as Tomatis, AIT, The Listening Program, LiPS, VIsualizing and Verbalizing, Lindamood-Bell, Fast ForWord family of programs, Phonemic Awareness training, PhonoGraphix, and such. Then, I will discuss the idea of developing strategies to improve processing at different "areas" or "levels" according to my model of APD as opposed to providing practice in general processing.

kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 9:50:18 AM)
can't wait...

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:50:20 AM)
cfw, I'm just getting back to what you wrote to ask of me.....

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:50:48 AM)
i keep hearing about all these learning programs - are each of them tailored to a specific problem casuing the apd?

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:51:18 AM)
is one better than another depending upon the reason for your childs problems?

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:51:54 AM)
cfw, your question is "How do we get CAPD to be recognized as a disability....?" First, if the question really is "Can we get a school district to recognize APD as a disability then I would NOT support that personally nor as a professional." My rationale.....

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:52:10 AM)
Are vision problems disabilities? (THink about this question)

becki (ID=53) (May 1, 2001 9:52:48 AM)
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dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:53:14 AM)
Well, if a child has (say 100/20) visual acuity, would that alone be cause enough for you as the Director of a Private School to identify that child as being visually disabled?

cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 9:54:03 AM)
Dr.J, My question really is how do we have a good listening environment for the children?

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:54:50 AM)
My response......If using corrective lenses (glassess or contacts) brings the child's visual acuity to a level where the visual or sight problems are NO LONGER interfering with learning, then the child does NOT have a learning problem or an educational problem. However, the child DoES have an access problem and it would be the school's responsibility to insure that the child uses his/her eyeglasses (contact lenses) daily.

cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 9:55:26 AM)
How would you ensure that the child can hear?

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 9:57:11 AM)
If a child has a conductive hearing loss (like otitis media or middle ear infections) then we would have to make the sound louder (like glasses focusing the image onto the retina) and if in making the sound louder the child no longer had learning problems, then the child does nOT have a learnign deficit (IEP/Special Ed needs under IDEA) but the child (at the time of the ear infections) may have access problems (504) needing to have special seating or teachers talking louder or use of an FM for access the teacher's voice.

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 10:00:04 AM)
Thus, the bottom line is that APD (like conductive hearing loss, visual acuity problems) in and of themselves are NOT educational handicaps, and children with APD do NOT automatically have learning problems needing services or IEPs under IDEA. Also, for many children, they do not even have access problems needing accomodations under 504. The role of the APD evaluator is to determine what areas of auditory-verbal processing may be impacting a child's abilities to successfully deal with auditory-verbal information. BUT, the role of the school OR the parent (depending upon WHO brings forth the possibility that an educational problem or access problem exists) is to provide evidence that the child has either the educational problem or an access problem and the IEP or 504 would be based on the fact that the child's underlying APD problem is the CAUSE of the learning or access problems in school.

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 10:00:22 AM)
If you can't identify the learning problem or the access problem, then, the child has NO educational problems.

cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 10:00:30 AM)
The district is saying that he does not have an access problem since he is performing well using the sound field systems. They say that he must be failing by one grade to prove he needs an accomodation. They do not recognize CAPD as a disability that needs correction. We know that as long as the sound is +10dB over background noise, he can usually understand it. They do not feel that he should have a a 504 to achieve that level of sound over the background noise.

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 10:01:35 AM)
cfw, you ask how would I ensure that the child could hear? ANswer is "Why is the child UNABLE to hear?" THen, I would accommodate for the problems the child has in not being able to hear and I would remediate HOW the child can learn to hear or use auditory-verbal information more successfully.

cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 10:02:12 AM)
Our educational audiologist and neurotologist have both identified that he needs sound field amplification, at least a minimum of +10 dB.

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 10:02:52 AM)
cfw, obviously the child HAS an access problem because he HAS to use the sound field system. Duh! (Not making fun of you, merely making fun of the stupidity of the school IF it is true they are saying (and I paraphrase what you said) "The child has not problems with access when we provide accommodations."

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 10:05:10 AM)
Fine. But, neither the educational audiologist NOR the neurotologist are in school and provide evidence that your son has problems either LEARNING (IDEA/IEP) or with ACCESS to the teacher's voice when NO accommodations (i.e., no sound field system) is in use. WHat you need is to provide evidence that your son will have problems accessing the material provided verbally in class without the sound field system in order to identify that the sound field system is needed as an accommodation under Section 504.

cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 10:07:14 AM)
The issue is one of parental control with our new superintendetn. He is going to place sound field systems in k-2 (after seeing what they do, they want to put them there.), but is saying that they will not allow them in the classrooms unless there are 504's or IEP's. However, we have at least 2 children in our school who have had the sound systems for several years and have been behind and have now caught up. We were not offered the alternative of having 504's back when our children were actually having learning problems. Now that they are caught up, they are saying that they can't have 504's. But, they are taking away the sound systems. A catch-22.

cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 10:08:25 AM)
We have one teacher who has had a recent experience with him without a sound system. She said that it was like he wasn't there. But, they are discounting her testimony.

kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 10:09:02 AM)
thanks for you insight this morning Drj, I look forward to seeing you in August

kathy (ID=52) (May 1, 2001 10:09:04 AM)
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cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 10:09:24 AM)
One alternative is "bags of sound" or auditory trainers. When we used those before, he was harassed.

cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 10:10:30 AM)
The school did nothing to redirect the behavior. It was shortly prior to installing the surround sound systems. Since that time, he has had no harassment and kids thank him for the systems.

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 10:11:13 AM)
No, not a catch-22 at all. What you have to do is present the following challenge to the schools. Ask the schools to provide evidence that your son no longer needs the sound field system? Now, in order to do that, they may suggest taking the sound field system away for a period of time and observing whether there is a change in your son's abilities to get the information from the teacher. You may have to do this, and I as a professional would suggest that it be done. I don't know if you will like what I have to say here, but the ultimate goal of any special educational services or of accommodations is to REMOVE the services or accommodations and allow the child to function independently. WHY? IN contrast to getting to the point where a child no longer needs the accommodation is that you have created a life long dependency. NOw, if the child truely will be dependent for life on technology, so be it - oK but we've tested it out.

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 10:13:53 AM)
That's fine, but from a rehabilitative point of view, we have to periodically assess IF your son still requires the accommodation. AND, IF the assessment indicates he still needs the sound field FM, great, we write it into a 504 plan. IF the assessment indicates he no longer needs the sound field FM, we should celebrate that he has successfully overcome his auditory processing disabilities and is no longer disabled although he may always have auditory processing deficits when tested on APD tests. Results of APD tests are merely results of APD tests and may have NOTHING to do with how a child is or is not successfully compensating for the APD problems in real life.

cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 10:14:17 AM)
I understand what you are saying. We do not use the systems in religious school. And, we are teaching him to advocate for himself. We are at the point that his grades are going to reflect his admission to college.

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 10:14:51 AM)
cfw, I've just noticed the time and I have to prepare for my last class before the final exams. I will have to leave (logoff) in about 5 minutes.

dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 10:16:32 AM)
I understand. Then, you have to go to school and argue that the school needs to set up a time to "try out" classroom listening without the sound field FM in controlled situations in which your son can be monitored and tested BUT the situation will have no impact on his class grades and his grade point average so that they will not impact on his college admission.

cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 10:16:38 AM)
Thanks for your advice! We are trying to resolve the problem between testing and actual classroom performance. In addition, we realize that the ACCESS Board is developing classroom standards that will help all children to hear.

cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 10:17:11 AM)
Your controlled test is a good suggestion. Thanks.

cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 10:17:39 AM)

cfw (ID=55) (May 1, 2001 10:17:41 AM)
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dr.j (ID=51) (May 1, 2001 10:17:46 AM)
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Lisa (ID=56) (May 1, 2001 10:18:27 AM)
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debbie (ID=57) (May 1, 2001 2:41:01 PM)
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dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 3:33:44 PM)
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debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:35:01 PM)
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debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:35:15 PM)
hi dr j! How are you doing this afternoon?

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 3:36:54 PM)
Good afternoon, Debbie. Just answering a phone call. be right with you.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:37:21 PM)
take your time.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 3:38:17 PM)
It's Anne

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:39:03 PM)
Please tell her hi and ask her if she got the website on the online tutorials.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 3:42:10 PM)
Yes. Anne DID get the info she was excited to get it and looked it over and said WOW! She said once she's finished her final exams (which will be next Monday) she'll have the time to go through the info and then she will (I believe) have the time to send you a thank you and contact you for any other mentoring as well.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 3:42:29 PM)
Well, how was your day? I hope it wasn't as hectic as mine.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:43:02 PM)
Our system at work is going through a major reconstruction so it is challenging, but overall a good day!

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 3:43:48 PM)
Yes, someone on AOL Kathy was having a lot of problems with the chat. She said AOL was "kicking her out" periodically (I think it was kathy?)

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:44:24 PM)
yes Kathy is on AOL. She's a really sweet lady. Kathy, Debbie Schott and I met for the lecture by James Jerger a while back.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 3:45:08 PM)
I also think it was Kathy who said she's going to the presentation on Sat on IEPs, IDEA, and how SI and APD lead to LDs in school.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:45:51 PM)
I hope your day is starting to settle down a bit. Once again, you are correct, that was Kathy. I went back and read the chat when I got home.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:46:50 PM)
The conference she is referring to is in Clearwater. I would have loved to attend, but couldn't make it. I am going to an Exceptional Student Education Conference on Saturday that is being presented locally.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 3:48:26 PM)
Yes, I hope it's will settle soon. It's the last day of classes and for most students the most tense time of the year. I held my last class in AR (aural rehab in children) this morning, and actually I'm glad it's over and done with. I gave them a case to work on all semester long, and their final project/exam is to write up the IEP goals and accommodations for their child (case) for at least four areas (I gave a choice of six) . They actually liked that as a project/final exam and I think it is more useful for them and will make their case completed.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 3:49:15 PM)
The one in Clearwater is that by the group you were refering to last week who is willing to work with the NCAPD and do an on-line IEP/IDEA tutorial/class/chat?

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:49:52 PM)
That is an excellent final project.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:50:11 PM)
The group that I was referring to last week is the Independent Living Center of NE Florida . It is not the same group that is holding the conference in Clearwater.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 3:51:11 PM)
Just sounded like a similar type of workshop. ANyway, I hope your conference Exceptional Student Ed Center will be worthwhile and you can get some useful info from it on Saturday.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:51:50 PM)
The gentleman who is speaking on a parent's rights under a 504 Plan is the gentleman I had my meeting with last week.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:51:51 PM)

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 3:53:18 PM)
Yes, now I remember you saying that to me on the phone last week. That should be a really good conference. I really think that parents miss out not really knowing or understanding what are their rights and their children's rights under both IDEA and ADA/504.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:54:10 PM)
I did draft a different letter to the school on Friday requesting an independent evaluation. I'm awaiting a response.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:55:13 PM)
Do you mind if I ask you an off the wall question, (I realize it may vary from state to state)..........Do parents on a 504 ususally have the same procedural safeguards as a parent on a IEP?

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 3:55:29 PM)
Well, that school had better look out for you as they are dealing with a very knowledgeable parent. I think they'll go along with the independent eval because of your valid points and complaints.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 3:57:09 PM)
Debbie. In my experience the answer is YES. In my dealings with schools in New York State, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, D.C., and Virginia, they all seem to treat the IEP and 504 the same regarding the meetings, the testing, the time line and the fair hearing and stuff. The major difference is the accommodations vs. specific IEP goals and services.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:58:27 PM)
Sarah brought home her midterm on Friday afternoon. She had 3 A;s a C in reading and 2 F's in language and social studies. (Note both of these subjects use the same testing format.) This is enough to retain Sarah if grades do not approve.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 3:59:05 PM)
I thought the procedural safeguards were the same, but I wanted to check.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:01:07 PM)
If for any reason the school were to decide to try and retain Sarah, I would fight them on it all the way.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:01:16 PM)
Well, now you DEFINITELY have the evidence you need to indicate that there is a specific learning problem since Sarah must have received an A in math, and A in science (I'm guessing from the missing classes on the list) both of which are very manipulative and "hands-on" doing subjects. BUT, she got a C in an language/auditory based class (reading) and F's in language/auditory based classes (language (I think that's language arts?) and Social Studies.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:02:07 PM)
Yes, this report card is sufficient evidence to prove that Sarah DOES has specific learning problems in language based verbal subject materials and is not merely a student who needs to repeat the grade.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:02:27 PM)
I didnt know whether to be happy or depressed when she gave me the progress report.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:02:53 PM)
I knew the F;s would support what I was saying, but at the same time I felt very bad for her.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:04:14 PM)
Yes, but consider this. The F's may also be Sarah's unconcious way of saying "I need help....someone help me!" Unless she was PROUD of her F's and the C, she's struggling and the school and teachers are NOT providing an APPROPRIATE PUBLIC EDUCATION (yes, I give them the fact that it is FREE) for her.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:04:21 PM)
I just looked at her progress report..let me correct the grades..B in Language, F in Reading and a C in spelling.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:04:55 PM)
but the reading and the social studies indicate that Sarah is not making proper use of language skills.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:05:27 PM)
She can spell the words and define them,,,just can't use them properly.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:05:50 PM)
Spelling and Definitions are memory tasks, not integration tasks, right?

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:07:19 PM)
OK, then, the areas in which she is doing poorest are actually in spelling and reading BOTH have similar factors: BOth require sound (hearing/auditory) to symbol (visual) association. I'd love to see an update of the following tests on Sarah....SSW (to see if there's a Type A pattern); Phonemic Synthesis; Phonemic Awareness/conceptualization task like the LAC.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:08:24 PM)
She did still have the F in Social Studies also besides the grades I posted. I just had one F in the wrong subject.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:08:28 PM)
No, there's a degree of sound to symbol integration in spelling and definitions. And, yes, they are both memory tasks. But memory is also involved in math, science, social studies, and reading and language. BUt, I'd like to see how she performs in sound-symbol association

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:09:28 PM)
I dont think Sarah has ever taken the LAC. What other test would be similar?

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:09:34 PM)
That's OK. Again, I wonder if the problem is based on sound-symbol association. BUt, whatever the problem is, we can identify it and "attack" it and help accommodate for the problems until they are remediated.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:10:52 PM)
The Phonemic Awareness Test. I can't think of ANY other task that looks at the combination of auditory-visual-cognitive manipulation at the speech sound or phoneme level other than these two tests. For her age level, I would think the LAC (Lindamood Auditory Conceptualization) Test would be the best.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:11:58 PM)
FYI: The LAC is NOT part of any standard APD audiology test battery BUT is given by many SLPs who work on the Lindamood-Bell program/stuff and by a few wierdo audiologists like the one in the Washington, DC/Northern Virginia area!

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:12:01 PM)

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:12:08 PM)
Who would administer the Phonemic Awareness Test or the LAC? Would it be an SLP or school liscensed psych?

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:12:26 PM)
sounds like time for a road trip! *LOL*

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:12:59 PM)
you answered my question before I was able to ask it

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:14:25 PM)
Well, you know that if I can get the test Data I can interpret the tests and I will be happy to do so once you get the independent tests done.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:15:32 PM)
I wanted to also ask you a question about the article you sent me on APD in childrent Post-Institutionalized (sorry I dont remember the exact title)...I just wanted to verify if I have your permission to use that article for the NCAPD News?

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:15:37 PM)
Debbie are you getting my messages ok? My computer is giving me a hard time.......?

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:15:40 PM)
next issue is in June

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:15:43 PM)
yes i am

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:17:10 PM)
Well, what I'd suggest on the article is maybe to make some changes since it focuses specifically on he post institutionalized kids. Either preface it with the fact that it is about these kids, or I can edit it and remove specifics about these post institutionalized kids and early auditory deprivation........what do you think?

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:18:07 PM)
As for printing it in the NCAPD, no problem. It is MY article and it will be printed/published in a newsletter going out to the Family Support Group for Post Institutionalized Kids and not to the general public.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:18:20 PM)
Would you mind editing the article and relating it to general auditory deprivation.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:18:58 PM)
not specific to post institutionalization

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:19:34 PM)
Everything's OK with my computer now. I think it's that end of semester system overload from time to time. It's 4pm and all of the undergraduate classes end here at Gallaudet between 3 and 3:30pm, so I'd bet it's the students rushing to the internet for final exam stuff, final papers, whatever. Maybe there was a sudden rush of log ons all at once.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:20:11 PM)
Yes. I can easily do that and I think that would go better for our GENERAL NCAPD Audience, if you know what I mean.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:20:27 PM)
I think that would be better also.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:20:49 PM)
Have you heard back from SLC if they are interested in sponsoring the conference?

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:21:05 PM)
Also, I could use the article from the NCAPD and copy it for parents in my practice and those asking for more info on APD.....while I can use the one from the Post Institutionalized (PI) group specifically for the foreign adoptee population.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:23:20 PM)
Sharing the information between the groups will benefit everyone involved.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:23:21 PM)
Not that I know. I do have to say that I'm behind in my email since I was around on Thursday, saw clients in my Washington DC office on Friday morning and mid-afternoon, then took off to central Virginia where I was involved in a weekend workshop on Autism (I presented of course on APD in the Autistic Spectrum) and drove back yesterday early right to my office in Northern Virginia where I saw two other clients and then home last night. I have NOT yet had a chance to check my email since THursday morning/afternoon.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:24:29 PM)
You probably have more than a couple emails from me. =) I sent you a few Thursday morning, One contained a packet of information I was planning on giving to the school.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:24:31 PM)
I can say that I know that parents and professionals HAVE gone to the NCAPD website and checked out the APD simulation because I met some parents and SLPs this past weekend who have discussed the CAPD listserv and the NCAPD website and the APD simulation.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:24:45 PM)
That is good to hear!!

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:25:34 PM)
I did get the letter you wrote for the school, was that the "packet of information" and the email that you felt comfortable going into the meeting....and you might call me later that day (which we did talk Thursday)....etc.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:25:34 PM)
Can I share one frustration with you about the NCAPD?

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:25:41 PM)
Yes, please.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:26:26 PM)
I guess I had hoped by now that more parents would show support for the NCAPD through membership. Parents are looking for help and we are trying to help them, but we need their support also.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:27:05 PM)
I agree. Is your concern that parents are NOT supporting the NCAPD BUT they are getting the benefits of the organization?

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:28:24 PM)
I guess my frustration is that when parents ask what specific programs we have to benefit their kids, I can tell them of the simulation, the chat, the referral program and the Be A Friend Program, but they are looking for other programs that we could not even consider without support or funding.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:30:25 PM)
I want parents to benefit from our efforts, that is what it is about, but to continue to develop ways to help them we need to get their support.....If we write a proposal for a grant and state we have 23 member or 100 members,,which would look better in consideration for the grant? We will have to be able to show in concrete proof how we are helping people and why foundations should give us grants.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:30:39 PM)
I understand. Do you think we should try two approaches then? First, a general approach like advertising to get parents and professionals to join the NCAPD through membership every once and a while via the chat and the listserv and even on the NCAPD website.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:31:35 PM)
ALso, when parents ask specific questions about support, the chat, etc, we should directly inform them that these are voluntary programs that will no longer exist if they do not support via financial support being members of the NCAPD.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:32:05 PM)
No. I agree. Having 100 members is what we want.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:32:18 PM)
I bring membership up in the evening chats and include it in emails sent out on our lists. I sent the letter about the membership drive, and have gotten NO response, although I realize I did extend that through the end of May.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:33:43 PM)
So when a parent writes and asks the benefits of membership, let them knowthat the services currently being provided by the NCAPD are free of charge, but are supported by memberships, that without the membership the free programs will not be able to be continued.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:35:39 PM)
Then the "advertisement method" isn't working. Well, we have to consider two other choices. One is that when people come to the chats I would be happy to do it and you could also do it (if you're comfortable) putting in periodically in our discussions that these chats are brought to you by membership support via members of the NCAPD and that only IF we continue to have NCAPD member growth can we continue with the chats. ( I can't do that with the listserv because of the nature of the maelstrom.stjohns.edu server) But, when I tell parents to view the APD simulation, etc. I will be sure to put in that the simulation is on the internet ONLY because of NCAPD member support, so that without membership growth there would be a chance that the simulation and the NCAPD website will no longer be!

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:36:54 PM)
I'm very comfortable with doing membership "commercials" during the chats. I also do "conference commercials" in the night chats.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:37:09 PM)
debbie, it's like Public TV and Public Radio. Anne and I have joined washington Public TV (WETA) and Joshie knows he's a WETA kid (as they call it) and he is proud to show off his WETA Kids name tag attached to his school book bag. But, I know there are many many kids who get the benefits of public TV without their families being members.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:37:46 PM)
I guess the closer we get to being qualified to apply for grants, the more I am concerned about being able to measure the effectiveness of programs.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:38:14 PM)
I dont expect everyone who visits the site to become a member, but I would like SOME of them to be! =)

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:38:54 PM)
Well, let's be more proactive in doing these. I will certainly be more active in advertising and I'd have to say I do put in a plug to join the NCAPD, but I don't really put it in enough NOR have I ever said without the NCAPD membership support there'd be NO website, simulation, and once the newsletter publishes my article and other articles, the ARTICLEs on the web and the national referral list, etc. etc. etc.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:39:41 PM)
Did you get to read the packet of info I put together for the school? Eventually I would like to be able to help parents prepare packet similar to take to their meetings. For that, of couse, there would be a fee.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:40:01 PM)
I agree. And, it's funny but it IS during those weeks of the membership drive when we see the constant what I call the "guilt" discussions about Are you a Member of Public TV? that we joined.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:41:04 PM)
I am going to a lecture next week at U of F on Technological Assistance for individuals with APD (I think it's FFW) Dr Hall has asked me to spred the word about the conference and I dont mind, but I"m also going to ask him to spread the word of our conference.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:41:41 PM)
I looked it over quickly, but, if you can give me until after next Monday (I have to read my final exams between now and then) I will have the time to catch up and do the article and read your packet. It looked like the packet really is part of the FAQ info packets you want to make up for the NCAPD anyway. And, yes. I think we can offer some of the NCAPD services for a small fee.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:42:36 PM)
There is no rush what so ever! Yes it isvery similar to what I want to do for the info booklets.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:42:43 PM)
but a much shorter version

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:42:59 PM)
I agree. If we help spread the word of Dr Hall's presentation, then, I would expect that he would spread or announce the NCAPD in general, and our APD conference specifically. Maybe he'll allow you to present the info on that.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:43:24 PM)
I will get to it. ANd, I agree. There are a number of services we could provide via the NCAPD.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:43:39 PM)
I"ll email him back later today or tomorrow

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:44:11 PM)
I had better run. I am suppose to pick up the polo shirt samples for the NCAPD today.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:44:29 PM)
Like the info packets and even provide the simulation on disk or CD (If someone has a CD burner (I think that's what it's called) for a parent or professional wanting to use the simulation in a presentation without the use of the internet.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:44:49 PM)
I have access to a few CD burners

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:45:05 PM)
Yes. I have to prepare the handouts for my final APD class as well. Speak with you soon. Have a great week.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:45:57 PM)
Have a wonderful day! I'll talk to you soon.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:46:17 PM)
Great. Then that could be a product we could "sell" or offer for support an offline simulation at a minimal cost. Even if the NCAPD were to make a couple bucks, we could say, FREE CD simulation of APD with one year membership in the NCAPD.

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:46:31 PM)
Yes. Talk with you soon. Regards to everyone.

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:46:34 PM)
that's a good idea!

debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:46:35 PM)
bye bye

dr.j (ID=59) (May 1, 2001 4:46:37 PM)
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debbie (ID=60) (May 1, 2001 4:46:40 PM)
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debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:10:09 PM)
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martha (ID=62) (May 1, 2001 8:12:55 PM)
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martha (ID=62) (May 1, 2001 8:14:03 PM)
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Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:17:36 PM)
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debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:17:48 PM)

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:17:53 PM)
give me just a sec

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:17:58 PM)
Hi Debbie, How's things ok

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:24:06 PM)
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Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:24:11 PM)
Hi Kathy

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:24:23 PM)
Debbie will be right back

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:24:23 PM)
Hello All.

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:24:41 PM)
okey dokey

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:24:48 PM)
How's things?

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:24:59 PM)
Fine thanks rushing to get here

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:25:06 PM)
and with you

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:25:21 PM)
OK, picked next year's teachers today, don't know if I did OK.

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:25:41 PM)
nice that ou have the option to do that...

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:26:07 PM)
We really don't but I've been making such noise through the year that the principal suggested it

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:26:17 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP =

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:26:23 PM)
Hi Denny

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:26:35 PM)
you have to go with your instinct there is no other way to do this and otherwise you will be second guessing yourself all the time...

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:26:36 PM)

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:26:56 PM)
I know but now I don't have anything to complain about if I have a problem. It's my fault

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:27:13 PM)
How's things with you, Denny?

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:27:46 PM)
Coming along. I have an almost seven year old recently diagnosed with CAPD. I have

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:28:11 PM)
often wanted to join the chat room but this is the first time I have been able to.

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:28:23 PM)
glad to have you

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:28:28 PM)
Nice to meet you. Do you have a girl or boy?

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:28:38 PM)
I have a boy.

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:28:51 PM)
I have a 7 year old girl.

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:29:08 PM)
She'll be officially diagnosed in July with CAPD, everything else ruled out.

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:29:32 PM)
I have a 4 yr old boy w/o a dx but strong suspicions aboput apd

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:29:40 PM)
My son also has everything else ruled out and goes to a therapist and also does

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:29:46 PM)
Earobics at home

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:29:56 PM)
Youre lucky he's so young Kathy and you know what you are dealing with.

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:30:06 PM)
How do you like the earobics?

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:30:33 PM)
My son does not like it at all and sometimes it becomes tough to get him to do it.

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:30:44 PM)
I've heard that before

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:31:17 PM)
I also have a 3year old daughter that I am concerned about. What is the earliest age you can test a child with CAPD?

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:31:33 PM)
yes, but there isnt much help...he is too young for testing to determine his areas of weakness. But at least the problem is sort of identified. We have tried to rule out everything else, and we will see the developmental pedatrician in July for his final ideas

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:31:53 PM)
I have been told they had to be able to read but I don't think that is the criteria.

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:32:13 PM)
My son's thereapist said she could test her at 4 years old.

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:32:18 PM)
That's why we are so late, I thought 6 or so and I'd test. Wish I had done something sooner.

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:32:49 PM)
I cant answer for your child but mine is 4.5 and cant do the testing . There are places tlike UF that are testing young chiildren but from what I've heard they don't do much before 6

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:32:50 PM)
Don't beat yourself up about it . A lot of parents don't find out what is wrong until 3rd grade.

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:33:15 PM)
UF does younger ones but the standard from what I hear is 6ish

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:33:37 PM)
I know and mine isn't a cut and dry case because there are no language or reading problems so I've been told by some that she is just immature, I don't believe that though

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:33:58 PM)
Question: does the CAPD affect your child's socializing skills? My son has difficulty socializing in groups and does well with one on one playdates.

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:34:01 PM)
I feel halpless cause we really have nothing we can do...just build language as much as we can

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:34:30 PM)
She, too does better with fewer kids and kind of hangs back in a group or finds one or 2 to talk to.

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:35:05 PM)
Exactly. It is really tough for me to watch. However, my son does not seem to mind.

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:35:05 PM)
We're having a better year now that I got her into softball

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:35:11 PM)
Denny, I have heard that capd does cause proiblems my son cant formulate correct responses to his peers questions frequently and had inappropriate answers

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:35:34 PM)
She couldn't care less about it, either and her responses to the kids are always delayed.

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:35:46 PM)
Kathy that is exactly it. What my son does is just walk away from the group and do his own thing.

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:36:14 PM)
That happens with Krystie, too

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:36:26 PM)
yup or mumble something or says something totally non responsive to the question asked

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:36:48 PM)
My daughter usually won't say anything and just act like she didn't hear

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:37:09 PM)
That's why I had her evaluated for inner ear problems. Nothing there

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:37:11 PM)
at four some of his peers know that William has a problem

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:37:18 PM)
Carol that is what my son does or he changes the subject. Do you think a social skills calss will help?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:37:36 PM)
Is there such a thing as a social skills class?

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:37:55 PM)
yes sometimes hosted by large department store...

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:38:08 PM)
Department stores?

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:38:29 PM)
yes there is. Family service type places offer it or a university will run by their PHD candidates in the Psycology dept.

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:38:33 PM)
But we're not really teaching them social skills as much as they need to understand what is being said

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 8:38:46 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP =

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:38:50 PM)
Hi Martha

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:38:54 PM)

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 8:39:04 PM)

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:39:05 PM)
It helps them deal with the frustration of their situation. Hi Martha

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:39:38 PM)
I have an acquaintance who works with autistic children and she suggested that I "write a story" about appropriate things to say when you meet peole or things to do ....like smile say hi lets play

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:39:57 PM)
One of the major things earobics is supposed to do is help them decode conversations.

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 8:40:17 PM)
Checking to see where to start helping your child with cadp

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:41:13 PM)
we have earobics one but he is to young to use it

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:41:37 PM)
reqires more computer skills and acedemics than we have yet

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:41:44 PM)
HI martha

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:41:59 PM)
jump in with questions or concerns....

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:42:42 PM)
Back, sorry, trying to get the kids to bed

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 8:43:12 PM)
hi-I have a 5th grader that was just been tested for capd and I am trying to figure which direction to go

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:43:52 PM)
Martha, is he on an IEP or 504

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:44:06 PM)
Earobics level one is for four year old and up. I would work with your child on it and see how much you can do together. Put him on your lap and work the computer together. Even though I can;t test my three year old yet I do it with her and my son's speech therapist approves.

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 8:44:33 PM)
no-didn't qualify here in NC

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:44:43 PM)
Mine didn't qualify her in MA either

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:45:04 PM)
We were able to get the 504 because she has problems with focus and attention in class

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:45:19 PM)
Will try Denny

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:45:47 PM)
Does anyone here have inappropriate behavior with frustration?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:45:58 PM)
Your kids, not you

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:46:15 PM)
yes a very fresh month

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:46:22 PM)

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:46:28 PM)
I know, here too

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:46:39 PM)
Crying all the time over little things?

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:46:49 PM)
yes. yes. yes

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:47:13 PM)
I'm told that is the result of spending the better part of the day concentrating on what's going on

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:47:19 PM)
sitting at the front of the class helped with some of the frustration

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:47:21 PM)
like overload

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:47:24 PM)
here too

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:47:31 PM)
yes but he's four and his friends cry too so Im not sure that is an indicator for us, but he shuts dont and his mind can't be changed

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 8:47:34 PM)
yes-the testing said she had mild capd so she doesn't fall under the 504

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:47:43 PM)
I"m sorry every one..I"M here now

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:47:46 PM)
My daughter has a buddy in school to help with page numbers

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:48:10 PM)
Martha, recheck that it only needs the diagnosis not the amount of the diagnosis

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:48:29 PM)
In other words, she either has it or not

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:48:30 PM)
Martha how many deviations from the norm in the CAPD test did she have?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:48:55 PM)
My daughter hasn't even been tested yet and does well in school but I pushed for the 504 and got it eventually

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:49:15 PM)
Debbie, what do you think?

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 8:49:24 PM)
sorry denny I don't know -we had son many test

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:49:39 PM)
Carol, let me read back and look at topic

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:49:47 PM)

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:50:38 PM)
my son has mild capd and he got 504 in nj. I was told only one deviation from the norm would be tough to get 504 but more than one should do it.

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:50:48 PM)
Carol and you fill me in briefly?

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 8:50:49 PM)
the school system here is cutting back on 504 because of the misuse-so many were getting 504 so they could be motify for the eogs

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:51:05 PM)
come again?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:51:15 PM)
Sure, the kids here have a CAPD diagnosis although mild so the 504 was denied, is that acceptable

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:51:59 PM)
What problems are the kids displaying in school

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:52:09 PM)
my son has a gross motor and fine motor skill develpmental delay and receives ot so that got me 504 no matter what and then I back doored the capd.

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 8:52:14 PM)
the schools were miss using the 504 so they could bring up their schools end of the year tests

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:53:23 PM)
my son does not follow oral instructions well and of course tunes out a lot

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:53:24 PM)
Denny, Krystie also had fine motor skill developmental delay but not bad enough to qualify, they told me then. She just learned how to dress and tie her shoes at 7

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:53:42 PM)
I am in the middle of a battle right now on a 504 Plan as to what "related services" include.

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 8:54:09 PM)
did you get your independant eval???

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:54:26 PM)
What does it include, I'm told it is only for room and curriculum modifications

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:54:45 PM)
Kathy, I faxed the letter to the Director of Student Services on Friday. I have neard nothing from them yet. I am pretty sure they will deny and then we will go to due process.

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:54:56 PM)
Carol - have you had her checked out by an ot? I did even though the principal of his school thought his handwriting was not that bad. Turned out he had a 1 !/2 year fine motor delay.

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:55:04 PM)
Carol I am trying to push for not only modifications but for remediation on the 504 plan

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 8:55:39 PM)
everything is a battle in schools today-she does well in school but has trouble with math and following directions

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:55:58 PM)
Krystie did but it showed high intelligence and slightly below average on auditory skills. The ot eval showed mild delay

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:56:11 PM)
What does remediation mean?

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:56:17 PM)
Debbie wouldn't therapy fall under the school s speech therapist area?

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:56:18 PM)
I'm sure by next week Carol I will have alot to share.

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 8:56:38 PM)
sounds like my daugther

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:56:43 PM)
Math problems here too, especially speed tests

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:56:44 PM)
Denny yes it should, but the school says she does not qualify for an IEP and that she can not recieve therapy on a 504

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:57:03 PM)
`Debbie, that's exactly where I am

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:57:19 PM)
504 allows for therapy - have you asked for a hearing?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:57:27 PM)
Not here Denny

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:57:30 PM)
modifications are things such as specialized seating....remediation is teaching her to hear the sounds so she dont have to have the modifications

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 8:57:53 PM)
yes speed test are hard for her-she is getting therpy and they are working on speed

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:57:54 PM)
So that can be done? I didn't know that

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:58:06 PM)
What kind of therapy?

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:58:18 PM)
Denny in my meeting last week (which I tape recorded) they flat told me NO that she could not receive therapy on a 504....I said "What?" so he repeated it twice on tape

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 8:58:24 PM)
Yes everywhere!!! It is a federal law. I have a lot of info on how to fight this. If you want I can get it to you. Carol - CAPD therapy

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:58:49 PM)
Where do you get CAPD therapy, from the audiologist?

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:58:51 PM)
Denny,,would you mind sharing with me too?? I am sure I"ll be at a due process within a few weeks

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 8:58:51 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP =

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:58:58 PM)
Hi blab, how goes it?

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:59:03 PM)
hey blab

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 8:59:19 PM)
Been a tough week, how about you?

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 8:59:23 PM)
my email is capdfromtheheart@aol.com or debbie@ncapd.org

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 8:59:24 PM)

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 8:59:44 PM)
we have modifications but will teachers follow it in middle school next year-she is going to speech and language. the speech at school told me about this center since she couln't get any service through the school

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:00:33 PM)

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:00:36 PM)
martha Is she starting middle school next year?

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 9:00:45 PM)
Debbie. One of the problems I have found here in my town is that the speech therapist don't know how to provide CAPD therapy. My son was also denied therapy but I did not fight this one because what she was doing with the kids she had was wrong and ineffective.

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:01:12 PM)
yes-6th grade

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:01:36 PM)
Have you visited and talked w/the principal and teachers yet?

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 9:02:21 PM)
Denny, my daughter was diagnosed 3 years ago last Friday. Some days I get so tired of the fight, but IM ready for due process and I am sure I will get her the help this time....they have no choice. My daughter is now failing...and they are responsible

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 9:02:45 PM)
blab, are you asking me that or who?

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:02:59 PM)
My son is in 7th. I met w/his team of teachers before school started and shared a list of his modifications and discussed his disabilities. Helped a lot

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:03:02 PM)
I talked with the principal and I am trying to put together a folder for each one so they will know what capd is

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 9:03:30 PM)
Debbie. Thats the horror of this situation that you have to wait till your kids are failing before they help you.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:03:52 PM)
Martha, will you have a team leader and a SpecEd teacher in charge?

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 9:04:06 PM)
I know other kids in my area that are fighting the same battle, so hopefully if I can win and I think I will, I can help them also.

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:04:39 PM)
it is a small school and yes they will have a team leader

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:04:50 PM)
Good luck, hope you can win. It is awful that that is what it takes sometimes to get adequate services.

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:05:05 PM)
I'm back, I did that Martha for the teacher, and last week she actually asked me what CAPD is. I could have strangled the woman

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:05:28 PM)
Will she have an aide? An FM deivce? Are you happy w/her current modifications?

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 9:05:42 PM)
Do the FM devices help?

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:05:58 PM)
we had a school in Charlotte before we moved here that wouldn't work with me or believed that she had capd-they didn't know what it was. We moved to Hickory and the teacher has really been great

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 9:06:00 PM)
brb have to finish labeling a science project with Sarah real quick

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:08:10 PM)
Depends on the problem, I've heard a few people say it was like a miracle, others weren't so thrilled.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:08:10 PM)
some people say the FM devices make a real difference.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:08:10 PM)
Some people say the FM devices help a lot

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:08:10 PM)
Can't get it to print testing

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 9:08:11 PM)
I have to put kids to bed. debbie I will email info to you soon. bye for now.

Denny (ID=65) (May 1, 2001 9:08:11 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat) (IP =

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:08:11 PM)
Do any of you do extra curricular activities with the kids, like sports, dancing, etc?

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:08:25 PM)
I gave the information from her testing and she never looked at it until our meeting and told me that she didn't think that Haley had a problem. She had her sitting at the door.t

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:08:28 PM)

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:08:49 PM)
for some reason I couldn't get anything to print

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:09:31 PM)
That's awful Martha, I can't believe the ignorance I've run into.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:09:43 PM)
My kids don't want to do extra curriculars I keep trying

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:09:56 PM)
I looked into the fm but she begged me not to get them

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:10:09 PM)
Mine didn't want the FM either

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:10:22 PM)
Is your daughter embarrassed about wearing an FM?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:10:35 PM)
I think she doesn't want to be different

jill (ID=68) (May 1, 2001 9:10:36 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP =

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:10:39 PM)
Hi Jill

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:10:48 PM)
yes-she said she didn't want to look different

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:10:55 PM)
My daughter won't wear dresses, put her hair up etc. not to be different

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:11:06 PM)
Hi Jill

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:11:18 PM)
Mark doesn't want one, but as he has an aide he is doing great this year. His problem will be when/if he takes French in 9th grade.

jill (ID=68) (May 1, 2001 9:11:22 PM)
Hi everyone

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:11:27 PM)

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:11:32 PM)
To make things worse, her teacher is so good at getting and keeping her attention, she suggested Krystie doesn't have a problem

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:12:02 PM)
She does go out of her way, though, touching her shoulder, tapping her desk, etc

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:12:22 PM)
what type of aide?

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:13:05 PM)
sounds like Haley-someone said they thought that she had ADD

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:14:08 PM)
Mark has an aide, a person that goes to class with him, takes his CCTV in, makes enlargements, copies teacher notes, etc. Mark is also visually impaired VI

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:14:45 PM)
I think lots of teachers confuse ADD and CAPD

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:14:51 PM)
thanks-sorry they are called teacher's assistance around here

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 9:15:01 PM)
I"m back

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:15:22 PM)
welcome back

jill (ID=68) (May 1, 2001 9:15:33 PM)
G2g one of my kids have internet homework ...I'll watch the time and maybe make it back on

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 9:15:36 PM)
sorry..it's been hectic here tonight

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:15:44 PM)
She assists the students not the teacher. Unfortunately I do know several that should be called TAs.

jill (ID=68) (May 1, 2001 9:15:56 PM)

jill (ID=68) (May 1, 2001 9:15:59 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat) (IP =

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:16:55 PM)
yes-I taught physcial eduation for 15 years and I worked with many TAs that did a better job then teachers

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:17:25 PM)
My 8 y/o gets help for his ADHD but tested too well to be dx CAPD even tho he has some problems. I push for the same mods either way

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:17:47 PM)
Martha, I had to have Krystie tested for ADD for the school

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:18:05 PM)

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:18:23 PM)
They insisted she had it even though the SLP there suggested CAPD

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:18:46 PM)
Is she getting ST help?

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 9:18:51 PM)
DEbbie are you going to the lecture at UF on the 16th?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:19:02 PM)
What is ST help?

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:19:14 PM)
Sorry, speech therapy?

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 9:19:25 PM)
as far as I know now I amplanning on it Kathy

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:19:27 PM)
Oh, suppose if I had it I'd know it, no she doesn't need it

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:19:39 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP =

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:19:44 PM)
Hi jb

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 9:19:46 PM)
is it at the hotel that we met at before

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:20:11 PM)
hi carol, this is my first time on.

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:20:16 PM)

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:20:23 PM)
Any questions or problems?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:20:33 PM)
thank you, yeah

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:20:36 PM)
Sometimes it is the speech pathologist that does the audiology type therapy b/c the school doesn't have anyone. They cover speech, language, and hearing if the child isn't actually deaf or HI

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:21:04 PM)
We thought hearing issues but ruled that out last month. We get nothing at school, she tests too high

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:21:18 PM)
sorry, scores too high on tests

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:21:34 PM)
When we had all the testing done (not through the school) they tested her for ADD and when we moved here the guidance wanted to test her again and I asked why. They said she had alot of Add symothns. They didn't understand the testing that we had done

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:21:38 PM)
Part of Mark's ST was pragmatic language stuff that would have fallen under CAPD had he been dx back then

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:21:46 PM)
i have a 5 year old daughter who is high risk for capd, did very poorly on the slp's test for auditory processing. i was wondering if anyone has noticed word finding problems with apd?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:22:20 PM)
I have no idea about word finding but are you following that up with audiologist eval.?

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:22:35 PM)
They are legally not allowed to rely only on scores to dtermine eligibility

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:22:46 PM)
yes, it is the single most "symtom" i see in my child.

tlc0724 (ID=70) (May 1, 2001 9:22:57 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP =

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:23:12 PM)
I know blab but there is no reason for the IEP

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:23:15 PM)
Hi tlc

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:23:17 PM)
jb -this is my first time also

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:23:19 PM)
Mentally word finding As in can't think of the word?

tlc0724 (ID=70) (May 1, 2001 9:23:24 PM)
hi room

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:23:31 PM)
they say she has the word finding problems because she cannot process the sounds, ever hear of that?

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 9:23:37 PM)
hey Theresa

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 9:23:49 PM)
night all see ya next week

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:23:50 PM)
Carol, Is she having problems in school?

tlc0724 (ID=70) (May 1, 2001 9:23:51 PM)
hi debbie

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:23:55 PM)
bye Kathy

Kathy (ID=64) (May 1, 2001 9:23:59 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat) (IP =

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:24:05 PM)
Only in math blab, on speed tests

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:24:26 PM)
She has a buddy that helps finding pages and writes homework assignments down when given verbally

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:24:44 PM)
for example....tot his day she cannot tell you her age....she knows it- she holds up five fingers...but does not remember the word five, she "cues" herself by starting withone then counts to 5

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:24:48 PM)
So at the very least she needs an accomodation under 504

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:24:50 PM)
not finding pages but retelling page numbers

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 9:24:51 PM)
how have you been?

tlc0724 (ID=70) (May 1, 2001 9:24:52 PM)
school is very hard for my son

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:25:11 PM)
She has the 504 but they won't modify it yet not until the diagnosis is there

tlc0724 (ID=70) (May 1, 2001 9:25:32 PM)
what is 504?

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:25:47 PM)
Carol, do you have an audiologist who will dx?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:25:53 PM)
tlc, that scares me as my little one does that at 6. I really think I might be looking at another one with apd's

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:25:53 PM)
jb-my daughter has a very hard time with her vocubluary

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:26:01 PM)
yes, blab but not til July

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:26:21 PM)
martha-in what way?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:26:30 PM)
504 provides accomodations in school that might benefit a child with problems

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:26:40 PM)
how old is your daughter, martha?

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:27:00 PM)
carol, then ask for a meeting either in the summer or the first week of school for an IEP or 504 Did they do an MFE?

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:27:10 PM)
they said she hears different sounds-she is going to be 11 this month

tlc0724 (ID=70) (May 1, 2001 9:27:20 PM)
my son is in 1st grade and was tested and he is about a year behind his age.

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:27:23 PM)
Wlhat is an MFE. I sure will be sitting down with them again in August

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:27:57 PM)
Multi Factored Evaluation It is what they do to determine if a child is eligible for an IEP

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:27:58 PM)
My big thing is to get the speed tests removed from her curriculum if possiblem

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:28:17 PM)
it is great that you found out early -good luck CArol

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:28:23 PM)
her sentences are not correct, i understand her words(speech) but sometimes I dont's undertands her becauseof the words.

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:28:31 PM)
She was cored at the school, she had multiple tests done by different people, SLP, educator and psychologist

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:28:41 PM)
Tlhanks, Martha

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:28:48 PM)
Carol that would be a good idea I have my kids tests untimed even the proficiency tests

tlc0724 (ID=70) (May 1, 2001 9:29:04 PM)
carol how old is your child?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:29:17 PM)
Even thought the speed tests aren't auditory, these kids still have trouble? She is 7 in 2nd grade, 8 in August

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:29:46 PM)
Did they meet w/you and say she didn't qualify for SpecEd services under IDEA?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:29:53 PM)

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:30:09 PM)
I do agree with that right now though

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:30:28 PM)
Her problem is helped with the 504 and now speed tests are the only thing that is a problem

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:30:29 PM)
I am so worry about the end of the year test for Haley-but her grades are good but she did so terrible last year on them . The state has started holding back children that don't make a 3 and last year she made 2s. When she was in the 3rd grad she made 4s-but she had a great teacher

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:30:34 PM)
we are reevaluating her with the cst starting friday. any pointers as i am knew to this?

tlc0724 (ID=70) (May 1, 2001 9:30:44 PM)
Its hard Carol I am going through the same thing. My son will be in 2nd grade and at Kindgraden level. I am just hoping that he keep liking school and wants to keep going.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:30:57 PM)
give thema copy of the MD report when you get it and either ask for a reeval or for a 504

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:31:16 PM)
anyone else have a child dx as early as 5?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:31:20 PM)
I have the opposite problem tlc, she's in 2nd reading at 4th grade level. Math is 1st grade level

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:31:32 PM)
Mine wasn't dx until 12

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:31:55 PM)
blab, how old is she now

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:32:00 PM)
If Math is 1st grade level that is reason enough for an IEP

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:32:12 PM)
i am very confused with all this stuff. her slp wants to do fast forword this summer.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:32:22 PM)
I have to boys one 14 y/o and one 8 y/o

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:32:36 PM)
not to the school. She's not failing but holds her own with everything but the speed so they don't take the full grade for the speed tests so she passes

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:32:44 PM)
Sorry, blab

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:33:13 PM)
so you've known for a couple of years that he has APD, What did you think the problem was before that?

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:33:16 PM)
I've heard fastforward is ggod

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:34:02 PM)
that is what i am told... i can't help but feel i don't have the whole pictuer with my daughter.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:34:12 PM)
He has a whole list visually impaired and ADHD being the educational issues He also has some medical issues

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 9:35:08 PM)
I have a few things to do before heading to bed, so I'm going to run...have a great night everyone and I"ll see you next week. (Next week I'll take a nap so I can stay awake longer since I get up so early)

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:35:19 PM)
Then sent my then 6 y/o old for testing. The older one had more symptoms so I had him tested too He tested at the 1% on many skills especially dichotic listening

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:35:21 PM)
jb-I had a hard time understanding Capd and my husband just thought that Haley was just not wanting to listen to us.

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:35:39 PM)
did you all see only academic problems, what did you see at home?.

tlc0724 (ID=70) (May 1, 2001 9:35:41 PM)
good night debbie

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:35:55 PM)
blab, what test at 6? with the audiologist?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:35:59 PM)
At home, terrible frustration, anxiety and sometimes depression

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 9:36:10 PM)
goodnight =)

debbie (ID=61) (May 1, 2001 9:36:13 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat) (IP =

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:36:42 PM)
Yes, both boys had complete testing for CAPD done by an audiologist at the speech/hearing clinic at the Univ here

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:36:51 PM)
Saw a psychotherapist last month. She scared me so not going back

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:37:18 PM)
her slp said she scored in the 1%on some of the testing she did and is amazed that she is happy and weel adjusted given her scores.

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:37:19 PM)
I had to get infront of her before she would hear me, she would get frustrated, and somethimes would seem like she was out of space

tlc0724 (ID=70) (May 1, 2001 9:37:22 PM)
my son was tested for CAPD at the age of 5yr

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:37:35 PM)
they have to be at least 6 for that testing, right?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:38:00 PM)
I was told that jb, but not sure. Some peop;le are testing the kids at 4 & 5.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:38:01 PM)
The aud didn't tell me there was an age limit

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:38:08 PM)
tlc0724-what tests, the audiologists?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:38:34 PM)
really? i may have to look further into that.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:38:37 PM)
in fact she said it would be better if we had caught it when he was younger

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:39:12 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP =

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:39:22 PM)
Hey Marge How are you?

tlc0724 (ID=70) (May 1, 2001 9:39:40 PM)
boy its been so long ago I'm not sure. but he was in speech and his speech teacher though that he might have CAPD that why they did the test at 5yrs

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:39:42 PM)
sheis starting kindergarten in th fall, she is so sensitive. EXTREMELY artisitic. they say the youger you catch it the better, but 3 sources said she has to be at least 6.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:39:44 PM)
hi carol! fine!! just got back from a camp fire meeting tonight

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:39:56 PM)
I have to e-mail you, Marge, got a letter from Dr. Kujawa to Dr. Berlin.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:40:10 PM)
carol: great! i look forward to reading it!!

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:40:33 PM)
jb: your daughter is suspected of CAPD?

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:40:42 PM)
Anaud does a complete screening 1st checks hearing and looks at ears, then tests in and out of a sound proof room with a variety of sounds words, each ear seperately and both ears w/different words/sounds on the headphones Took 1 1/2 hrs

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:40:48 PM)
(hi blab, jb, martha, and tlc)

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:40:53 PM)
"high risk" as they say. she is 5.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:40:54 PM)

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:41:13 PM)
jb did she have lots of ear infections?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:41:14 PM)
jb: has she had a full audiological evaluation done?

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:41:32 PM)
hi marge

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:41:42 PM)
the slp did some testing with head phones...she did very poorly on these.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:42:04 PM)
jb: ok... your next step is to see an audiologist to rule out just-plain hearing problems

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:42:10 PM)
jb did you get a report w/specific scores and recommendations?

tlc0724 (ID=70) (May 1, 2001 9:42:21 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat) (IP =

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:42:26 PM)
not full, last yr when she was 4 she had an audiologist say she had trouble hearing with background noise..that was it

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:42:46 PM)
jb: an SLP can detect that there are some kind of auditory problems, but they don't have the equipment or training to determine whether the problems are CAPD or hearing loss

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:43:01 PM)
i have a report from that audiologists..her hearing was perfect.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:43:11 PM)
sorry: SLP was not supposed to be in caps... there is a macro on this site that converts it automatically

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:43:12 PM)
that is dichotic listening same problem as mine, assuming she doesn't have an actual hearing loss

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:43:28 PM)
jb: problems with background noise aren't necessarily a dichotic listening problem

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:43:44 PM)
jb: you can have problems with background noise that happen when listening only with one ear

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:44:02 PM)
ok you have a point

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:44:18 PM)
jb: what tests did the audiologist do?

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:44:38 PM)
Got to go, good night all.

Carol (ID=63) (May 1, 2001 9:44:42 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat) (IP =

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:44:42 PM)
gnite carol

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:44:44 PM)
hold on, let me look.

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:44:52 PM)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:45:09 PM)
oops she logged out quick... we missed her!

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:45:27 PM)
must go and thanks for the information since it was my first time

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:45:34 PM)
gnite martha

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:45:39 PM)

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:45:51 PM)

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:45:54 PM)
not detailed

martha (ID=66) (May 1, 2001 9:45:57 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat) (IP =

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:46:16 PM)
jb: oh, you are looking at a report, then? not the actual graphs & data tables?

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:46:19 PM)
jb was it from an aud or the speech path?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:46:29 PM)
"hearing within normal limits" CAPD eval should be done at 6"

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:46:42 PM)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:46:50 PM)
jb: did she run OAE? tympanometry?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:47:21 PM)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:47:25 PM)
(just assumed aud was a "she"... sorry if not right)

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:47:30 PM)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:47:40 PM)
OAE = otoacoustic emissions

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:47:59 PM)
there are several different types. might be abbreviated TEOAE, DPOAE, something like that

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:48:28 PM)
i don't see that here.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:48:37 PM)
how about acoustic reflexes?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:49:04 PM)
yes...that is here..ipsilateral?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:49:23 PM)
make sense to you?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:49:33 PM)
well, there will be 16 boxes: ipsilateral, contralateral, left, right, and 4 diff frequencies

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:49:40 PM)
can't make out her writing at that part

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:49:40 PM)
ipsilateral means "same side"

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:49:47 PM)
most not filled in

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:50:20 PM)
this test took about 20 min from what i recall

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:50:34 PM)
i don't beleive it was in depth.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:50:47 PM)
jb: i would agree: you can't do an in-depth eval in 20 minutes

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:50:53 PM)
marge,how old was your child when dx?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:51:30 PM)
jb: i have 4 children. 3 flunked the SCAN-C screening. 3 have poor consonant discrim relative to their audiogram

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:51:46 PM)
What ages?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:51:47 PM)
jb: one has abnormal acoustic reflexes. one has abnormal efferent suppression.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:52:04 PM)
jb: one has a lot of scarring on her eardrums from ruptured eardrums

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:52:19 PM)
blab: trying to think of ages...

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:52:29 PM)
blab: we didn't learn all of this info in a single test session

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:52:36 PM)
So do you have some hearing loss as well as processing problems/

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:52:36 PM)
i guess i need to contact an aoudiologist to see if they can test her so young. i am lost with the technical part.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:52:49 PM)
blab: we ran diff tests over several years' time

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:53:02 PM)
jb Did you say she was 4 or 5?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:53:09 PM)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:53:09 PM)
blab: yes i have some slight hearing loss on pure tone audiometry and processing probs

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:53:25 PM)
jb: they can run OAE and acoustic reflexes at age 5, for sure

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:53:41 PM)
The aud doesn't want to test until 6 y/o?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:53:52 PM)
i believe the slp did the scan test- i will get the report tomorrow.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:54:01 PM)
marge What about your kids?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:54:03 PM)
jb: hearing in noise typically improves with age. there is one test i know that is normed for young children, the WIPI.

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:54:27 PM)
i have been told by that audiologist, the school, her present spl that she should be 6.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:54:30 PM)
blab: they have normal or near-normal pure tone audiometry, but other more subtle problems as i've described

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:54:39 PM)
jb Is she is K or pre K? how is she doing there?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:54:48 PM)
jb: that is the standard recommendation for the speech-based tests that use a kindergarten level vocabulary

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:55:12 PM)
jb: but OAE and reflexes are objective tests: your daughter doesn't need to do anything except sit quiety for them

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:55:15 PM)
prek- very non academic. she does fine socially with kids.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:55:16 PM)

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:55:48 PM)
i wrote down wpi- the slp does that?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:55:48 PM)
jb: and WIPI is normed down to age 3, I think

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:55:55 PM)
don't know all the technical terms w/out pulling out the reports. I know how it effects them at home and at school

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:56:08 PM)
WIPI... no, have the audiologist do it so they can get an accurate measurement

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:56:12 PM)
what is this test? for auditroy processing?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:56:29 PM)
WIPI is just a speech discrimination test... can be done in quiet or with (calibrated) background noise

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:56:46 PM)
the biggest s thing i see with my daughteris word finding problems... any info on this?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:56:47 PM)
but some types of aud processing problems show up as signif problems with speech discrim in noise

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:57:20 PM)
she cannot get the word for things she knows...her age, last name

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:57:23 PM)
jb: word finding problems when she's playing with classmates, or word finding problems when she's trying to express herself to adults

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:57:45 PM)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:57:47 PM)
jb: is it in a pressure-type situation? where she's being essentially confronted for the answer?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:58:00 PM)
she went to pre k with same kids-cannot recall their names

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:58:21 PM)
jb: how about names of familiar objects at home?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:58:27 PM)
both...sometimes she comes to me to tell me something

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:58:48 PM)
she did very poorly naming common household objects. 3 of 13

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 9:58:53 PM)
Is the sppech path working w/her now?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 9:59:47 PM)
when making cookies with me, i was cutting the margarine to put inthe batter- she says"mommy, why are you using all that bread-we might raise out"

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 9:59:49 PM)
jb: expressive language problems might become a consequence of either hearing loss or CAPD, but CAPD itself isn't defined by expressive language at all... strictly a receptive phenomenon.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:00:22 PM)
jb: did she mean the bread dough might rise out of the pan?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:00:33 PM)
i have to say, the slp has been working with her alot.. teaching her how to ":cue" herself

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:00:59 PM)
no...she meant if i use all the butter(margarine) we might run out.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:01:08 PM)
jb Will the K provide sppech therapy? Have you talked to the school yet?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:02:05 PM)
she had an eval last summer by a child devel. center...the school accepted this and calssified her as preschool handicapped

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:02:30 PM)
we are goingfor reeval by the cst ..starting this fri.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:02:37 PM)
So will she be in aregualr K class w/help or a SpecEd class?

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:02:57 PM)

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:03:01 PM)
they have a "collaborative" kindergarten in my town

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:03:03 PM)
jb: well... "run out" is an idiom. i would not be alarmed if my 6 year old got a little mixed up with words that are part of an idiom... but if the slp's tests show she is behind, and she is improving with therapy, sounds like you're in good hands.

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:03:07 PM)
child study team

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:03:43 PM)
Ok forgot that one long time since i dealt w/preK SpecEd

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:03:55 PM)
jb: is your daughter's pronounciation good?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:04:50 PM)
she does need some speech therapy, but they say it is now bad. i understand most her words, just not how she puts them together sometimes.

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:05:06 PM)
that is not bad, excuse my typing

Diane (ID=72) (May 1, 2001 10:05:11 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP =

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:05:15 PM)

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:05:23 PM)
hi diane

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:05:39 PM)
hi diane

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:06:04 PM)
jb so there is a mix in the K class of SpecEd kids and TDKs?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:06:18 PM)
she says. mommy can i take a bath this year? she means tonight

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:06:28 PM)
what is TDK

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:07:03 PM)
sorry TDK=typically developing kid There are abbreviations for everyone : )

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:07:14 PM)
ohhhh... new one for me

Diane (ID=72) (May 1, 2001 10:07:20 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat) (IP =

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:07:32 PM)
i have seen ppl with normal hearing referred to as "audiologically mundane" :-)

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:07:48 PM)
yes, only the few special ed kids, then the TDKs the reg teacher and a special ed teacher.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:08:04 PM)
Sounds good if the class isn't too big

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:08:23 PM)
yup, but i think she will still need one on one with a slp

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:08:47 PM)
make sure you ask for it when you meet w/the cst

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:09:17 PM)
she is very shy and sensitive. any other tips for the cst, iep ect?

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:09:42 PM)
also ask that it be in a quiet nondistracting place I hear too often that they do it in a corner of the room which is tough for a kid w/CAPD

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:10:05 PM)
for the testing?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:10:06 PM)
jb: back to the acoustic reflexes for a moment: were any of the numbers over 100?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:10:41 PM)
bear with me marge, i am looking at the graphs again...........

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:11:12 PM)
Ask for preteaching of words on new topicsclose proximity to the teacher for listening activities.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:11:32 PM)
sorry hit enter abit jumbled

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:11:49 PM)
not to worry, blab :-)

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:12:58 PM)
marge, i can' t read what she wrote under acoustic refle...under ipsilateral by 1000 and 2000 there is writing, the only writing under acoustic reflex. i can't read her handwriting.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:13:33 PM)
also need to have her attention before giving directions and give instructions one at a time and check for understanding

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:13:50 PM)
jb: well, thanks for checking... too bad the handwriting isn't legible!

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:13:50 PM)
middle ear analysis it says... ipsilateral reflexex were present bilaterally

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:14:23 PM)
tough to get a report you can't read : )

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:14:25 PM)
i am use to working with doctors, so thisMUST be bad.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:14:54 PM)
jb: my daughter with the abnormal reflexes has lots of "present" reflexes bilaterally... but the ones for the higher tones (2000 & 4000) are elevated, and one of the 4000 reflexes is absent.

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:15:17 PM)
she needs the in depth audiological testing you are all talking about.. i need to find out when she can have it age wise.

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:15:48 PM)
jb check out www.ideapractices.org and www.wrightslaw.com for info on services, IEPs and school eval testing

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:16:01 PM)
I have to say goodnight all

blab (ID=67) (May 1, 2001 10:16:19 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat) (IP =

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:16:22 PM)
jb: a good, thorough audiological eval can be done at age 5... not to worry... it is only some of the CAPD tests with kindergarten vocabulary, and some of the dichotic tests, that you would not be able to do.

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:16:33 PM)
goodnight blab

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:16:58 PM)
thank you marge, how do i find a good audiologist?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:17:01 PM)
jb: some authors have written that there are certain aspects of dichotic listening that don't mature until age 15 or so.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:17:08 PM)
jb: what city are you in?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:17:43 PM)
i own books on capd, i better stick my nose back in them. i thought i learned alot, but i don't feel that way now.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:17:52 PM)
jb: there are some highly regarded university audiology clinics that would be an excellent choice.

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:18:00 PM)
i live in bergen county,

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:18:08 PM)
new jersey

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:18:14 PM)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:18:15 PM)
jb: schools for the deaf often have the equipment and training to do a thorough eval

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:18:34 PM)
jb: what big cities do you live close enough to drive to?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:18:42 PM)
is this test conclusive?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:18:54 PM)

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:19:12 PM)
new york city

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:19:17 PM)
jb: there is no single audiology test that tells "the whole story". you have do do a series of tests.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:19:34 PM)
jb: are you on the capd list?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:19:42 PM)
can it be definitivey diagnosed, though?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:19:55 PM)
jb: CAPD or hearing loss?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:20:00 PM)
no i am not on the capd list. how do i do that?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:20:02 PM)

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:20:39 PM)
this is my first time here

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:20:45 PM)
can you tell?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:20:49 PM)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:20:52 PM)
jb: at this time, there is no universally agreed-upon definition of CAPD, so therefore, a definitive diagnosis will depend a lot on which "model" of CAPD a particular audiologist subscribes to

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:21:06 PM)
jb: hahah... everyone has to start somewhere. fear not!

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:21:17 PM)
jb: it is overwhelming at first for everyone.

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:21:55 PM)
very. ... in the pit of me....i am not convinced she has CAPD

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:22:12 PM)
ok, let me see if i can remember how to join the capd listserver... check here on the ncapd.org site... debbie probably has a link for it

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:22:22 PM)
jb: do you feel she has a hearing loss?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:22:35 PM)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:22:54 PM)
jb: do you feel it is a language deficit?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:23:20 PM)
(not speech... language: grammar, vocabulary, syntax... that sort of thing)

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:23:34 PM)
for as poorly she did on the slp test...i get the specifics tomorrow...i believe it was the scan....i think i would see more of hearing type problems

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:24:04 PM)
yes, language poor sentance structure...can't find the words

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:24:17 PM)
jb: slight to mild hearing loss... especially if it is one of the more unusual types... would be difficult to detect via behavior.

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:25:28 PM)
i always felt like she doesn't always "get it" don't cut anyting but paper. only paper...then she cuts her pants.....

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:25:33 PM)
maybe it is a 5 thing

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:25:50 PM)
jb: if she was given the SCAN-C, I am pretty sure that that test should not be given before age 6 or7... i am surprised the slp would run it on a 5 year old.

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:26:19 PM)
i could be wrong...i get the report tomorrow.

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:26:26 PM)
(This user has entered CAPD: From the Heart) (IP =

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:26:35 PM)
jb: again, it is a matter of vocabulary... you always wonder: is she doing poorly on the test because she just isn't familiar with the test vocabulary, or is it because of APD.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:26:37 PM)
hi beth

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:26:48 PM)
marge, how do you know so much?

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:27:01 PM)
hello, marge

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:27:02 PM)
jb: i've done a fair amount of background reading

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:27:25 PM)
jb: i've also corresponded with a number of audiologists about some of the diagnostic problems in my own family

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:27:29 PM)
that is my point, if she can't find the words for things, and you ask her to repeat something, how do you know why she can't?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:27:45 PM)
jb: and i've personally had many, many of the audiology & CAPD tests

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:27:59 PM)
i mean , this girl still can't tell you her age.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:28:36 PM)
jb: i haven't read up on language problems because that isn't how the probs show up with me & my family

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:28:42 PM)
i guess in time i will learn more and more. i need to to help my little girl.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:28:50 PM)
(gotta tuck kids into bed... back in 3 mins)

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:29:14 PM)
i have read alot about language probs , learning disabilites.ect

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:29:43 PM)
beth, how old are your kids?

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:29:48 PM)
hello, jb

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:30:33 PM)
i have a 22 yr old son (in college), 13 yr old daughter and 9yr old son, kory. he's how i came to find these web sites

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:31:14 PM)
i only caught the tail end of the conversation, who old is your daughter?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:31:43 PM)
i have three kids. my daughter, Bren is 5.

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:32:06 PM)
is she the first w/ld's?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:32:06 PM)
i am jsut starting with this CAPD, very confusing

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:32:50 PM)
i won't be much help and my son has been in therapy since just before the age 4

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:32:50 PM)
yes, i have an 8yr old son, garrett, and a 3 yr old daughter Emma

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:33:07 PM)
therapy for CAPD?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:33:34 PM)

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:33:55 PM)
i'm still trying to get a dx for him, my "research" shows CAPD, vision processing, senory integration problems

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:34:28 PM)
i have read about phonologiacal processing, and that makes sense for waht i see with my daughter,

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:34:46 PM)
what is it?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:35:25 PM)
you have to hear phonems, the smallest part of the human language, in order to learn to read, the alphabet, ect.

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:36:15 PM)
i haven't read about that - found ld's are a vast area and very complex

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:36:21 PM)
maybe they can't do this because of APD's

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:36:38 PM)
you can say that again.

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:36:56 PM)
a hailstorm of confusion.

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:37:30 PM)
well, i think i am going to turn in. thank you all for your input.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:37:40 PM)
i agree... i hate the way every specialty (aud, slp, occupational therapists) all have their own terms

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:37:43 PM)
gnite jb

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:37:52 PM)
i will come back, and i have wrote down alot of info.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:38:01 PM)
all the best to you, jb

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:38:09 PM)
fought it would be east to, at least, get a dx but finding it very difficult and ready to give up (not really!) but feel lost with how to do it

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:38:42 PM)
beth: let me scroll up & read what you described as your child's problems

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:38:47 PM)
thank you........goodnight.

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:38:54 PM)
didn't say much

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:38:55 PM)
one last thing jb

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:39:00 PM)
goodnight, jb

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:39:02 PM)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:39:05 PM)
here is dr. lucker's addy

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:39:16 PM)
if you write him, he can tell you how to get on capd listserver

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:39:23 PM)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:39:24 PM)
it is jay.lucker@gallaudet.edu

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:39:51 PM)
he is an audiologist, and used to work in NYC, so he would know who is up your way that is a good audiologist

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:39:55 PM)
bare with me....waht is a listserver?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:40:02 PM)
if you decide to pursue additional audiology testing

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:40:05 PM)
jb: an email list

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:40:15 PM)
i am so new to this computer age

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:40:23 PM)
i know this is a chat room for CAPD but wondering if lots of the kid's crossover?

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:40:23 PM)
thanks again

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:40:32 PM)
you send one note to the list, the listserver then passes the note along to everyone on the list

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:40:38 PM)
like a club on the internet

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:40:48 PM)
beth: crossover... how?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:41:45 PM)
(not quite sure what you mean?)

jb (ID=69) (May 1, 2001 10:41:45 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat) (IP =

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:41:53 PM)
my son has problems with motor skills, senory integration and vision

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:42:29 PM)
beth: and you suspect APD also, or does that go with sensory integration stuff?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:42:33 PM)
how old is your son?

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:43:13 PM)
no, not sure what APD is. my son is 9 yrs old

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:43:24 PM)
APD is auditory processing disorders

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:44:05 PM)
okay, just knew it by CADP

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:44:05 PM)
has he had any evaluations done by MD's so far: maybe a developmental pediatrician, a geneticist, or a pediatric neurologist?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:44:38 PM)
they've dropped the "C" from "APD" since for most cases, there is no hard evidence of a *central* (brain based) auditory deficit.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:44:55 PM)
the use of APD is new since hmmm maybe last fall?

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:45:08 PM)
yes, neurologist and suppose to schedule another one (the last one seemed to be pushing meds) and i don't feel my son is ADD

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:46:02 PM)
he's had lots of testing and the only thing i know for sure is he's developmentally delayed

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:46:10 PM)
some of my kids have a cluster of seemingly unrelated medical problems... we greatly benefitted from seeing a geneticist... found out there is a common origin for most of it.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:46:42 PM)
does he have any chronic medical problems, other than the developmental delay?

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:47:21 PM)
thye did blood work on him to rule out any of that stuff

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:47:58 PM)
the blood work will only rule out what they're specifically testing for... do you know what diagnoses they were trying to rule out?

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:48:27 PM)
cromozones (not sure sp)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:48:45 PM)
ok... they were probably trying to rule out extra or missing chromosomes...

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:49:06 PM)
any chromosomal analysis more detailed than that is very expensive

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:49:35 PM)
one of my daughters had a chromosome "screen" i guess you'd call it when she was born.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:49:42 PM)
test report came back "normal female"

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:50:01 PM)
but she has in fact (much later) diagnosed with a genetic disorder

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:50:08 PM)
changed to a new doctor cuz wasn't getting anywhere w/last . and the appointment didn't work out any bettter today

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:50:16 PM)
it is a lot more subtle than a missing or extra chromosome, tho'

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:50:33 PM)
ohhhh, soooo sorry to hear that... must be very discouraging!

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:51:09 PM)
it might be worthwhile for you to get to one of the big university research centers, if the diagnosis has been so elusive.

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:51:26 PM)
asked my husband, if maybe i'm the one who's crazy. school seems to think everything is fine, etc. doctor's don't know where to go next......

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:51:48 PM)
been there, done that. know how you feel.

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:52:14 PM)
what large cities do you live near?

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:52:41 PM)
we have to go via our primary ins. and not getting anywhere with them. we just changed to a new HMO (first appt. today & same thing)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:53:27 PM)
we have an HMO plan too... but when i can explain to the PCP what referrals i want and why, i have not had any problems getting them.

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:54:14 PM)
i did....had my son's hearing tested last summer. it's find - knew that but wanted his processing tested and they refused to do it

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:54:44 PM)
how much is your son's language delay? 3 years or more?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:55:15 PM)
(i'm thinking there might be a good reason why they refused to test processing... but there are other useful tests that could be done)

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:55:24 PM)
last i heard (did PACE testing) and he was over 2 and 3 years

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:55:47 PM)
ok, so he has more than a 2 or 3 year delay? that would explain it, i think...

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:56:16 PM)
many of the speech-based processing tests require that a child have normal language development

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:56:18 PM)
and has a vision processing problem. had him in VT now

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:56:39 PM)
the tests were normed on 6 or 7 yr olds with normal lang and normal IQ

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:57:06 PM)
so, if there is any concern that he does not have the vocabulary to handle that, i can understand why they'd refuse to test

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:57:28 PM)
you wouldn't be able to tell the diff between a true failure of the test, and lower-than-expected language skills.

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:57:59 PM)
most people cannot believe he has any problems. his speech is fine now (wasn't at first) .more to do with processing

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 10:58:22 PM)
when his hearing was tested, did they run tympanometry, acoustic reflexes, and otoacoustic emissions (OAE)?

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:58:30 PM)
following complex directions

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 10:59:40 PM)
i don't know. it was a very fast test - 10 minutes tops. and i questioned the guy about CAPD and he wanted to know how i knew about it, etc.....told me to forget about more testing and just get a good SLP

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:00:17 PM)
beth: that sounds more like a hearing screening, not a hearing evaluation.

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:00:47 PM)
then talked to our primary care doctor and he didn't want to hear it - more or less was told to get another doctor

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:01:02 PM)

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:01:21 PM)
so did that - and got more of the same today.................

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:01:30 PM)
can i ask what hmo you are with?

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:01:45 PM)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:01:53 PM)
ok, so you are in california?

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:01:54 PM)
we did have HealthNet

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:02:10 PM)
yes, near stockton/modesto

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:02:14 PM)
i am not familiar with how those hmos work

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:02:26 PM)
ok... if you want a GOOD audiological evaluation for your son

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:02:42 PM)
and you are willing to travel to san francisco

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:03:00 PM)
you want to be seen by Bob Sweetow's group at UCSF

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:03:11 PM)
he is a very well known audiological researcher.

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:03:11 PM)
if found one online (near SF) but it was costly and wanted to get our insurance to cover it. seems like that is going to be impossible

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:03:34 PM)
is that in SF?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:03:37 PM)
UCSF is probably used to working out insurance hassles

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:03:39 PM)
yes, in SF

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:03:49 PM)
if you hold on a minute, i can get Bob's email addy

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:04:20 PM)
okay, does he know about other problems too with LD's

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:06:17 PM)
since he is in a university research setting, he probably knows ppl in other departments that would be able to help you

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:06:23 PM)
still looking for addy

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:07:16 PM)
i've never e-mailed a therapist before. how much info do you have to send them?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:08:20 PM)
well, in your case, what you would do is say something like this:

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:08:40 PM)
hi, i've been knocking myself out for the last X years trying to get a diagnosis for my son

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:08:52 PM)
he has (list the problems)...

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:09:12 PM)
and i am trying to get a diagnostically accurate audiological evaluation on him

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:09:45 PM)
An internet contact (you canuse my name if you like: Marge Tamas.. doubt if it will mean anything to him tho')

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:10:05 PM)
suggested i contact your clinic for a full audiological evaluation

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:10:08 PM)
okay, don't have to list all the tests he's had

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:10:42 PM)
no, this is just a letter of introduction. it would be approp to say that his only hearing eval done to date lasted about 10 minutes

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:11:08 PM)
Sweetow wrote a GREAT article about the quality of audiological care for pediatric patients

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:11:22 PM)
he really skewered some sacred cows in that article

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:11:36 PM)
let me check one more place for Bob's email... back in a minute

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:12:00 PM)
his hearing is just fine - just need to know where and how much to processing problems are affecting him

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:12:36 PM)
found it

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:12:47 PM)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:12:48 PM)
Bob will know how to properly eval for processing problems

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:13:05 PM)
here is addy: rwsweetow@orca.ucsf.edu

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:13:41 PM)
i'm not sure you can say his hearing is fine until he's had a good hearing eval, tho'

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:13:54 PM)
10 minutes isn't even enough time to do a puretone audiogram

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:14:21 PM)
i'll give it a try. let me ask you this. with regards to the order of therapy, which comes first....auditory, vision, or sensory?

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:14:46 PM)
i have no idea, unfortunately.

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:14:58 PM)
he had lots of hearing test when he was 3/4/5 years old (had tubes put in twice)

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:15:03 PM)
what has to come first is diagnostically valid evaluations of hearing & vision

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:15:22 PM)
how did they do those hearing tests then?

Beth (ID=73) (May 1, 2001 11:15:37 PM)
his hearing was normal

Marge (ID=71) (May 1, 2001 11:15:51 PM)
what tests did they do? very